(November 19, 2017 at 9:34 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If I understand OP:

He is saying, unless we know everything possible to know, we should not rule out the possibility of knowing God.
This is true.

A requirement of full knowledge is irrational.  We don't know what we don't know.  This will never -not- be true.  It doesn't prevent us from having knowledge, or from commenting upon some thing x that we do know -enough- about.  Do we know enough about magic book to say that the characters contained therein are confined to the page? 

Yes, we do know enough about that, even though we don't know everything there is to know about everything.  

Quote:I would add when I was in Kindergarten, I had no idea why colours existed. I knew I saw colours. I didn't know why. I didn't even think about the issue of that I was analyzing reality through five senses which didn't create the experience but rather my brain creates the experience based on imput from those five senses.

A wonderful example.  You didn't know why colors existed..but you knew enough to know that they did.  

Quote:We all see God. If you didn't think about what you been seeing, that is fine, but if you begin to analyze what are you seeing, you will realize your heart has never been disconnected from the source. 

No, we don't.  You have never seen a god, Mystic...nor have I.  

Quote:As the illumination of God is seen through love, you assumed love was an emotion, because that is how people talk about it. But if you analyze it, you will see it is a vision of value with emotion.

If you want to talk about love, fine..stop calling it god.  That's silly.  

Quote:It values beauty, and when you value your actions of your parents and analyze that and form a connection it values the beauty of their actions, and appreciation or praise is but love and valuing actions and the one doing the actions.

"It"...if by it you mean love..is not a thing that values anything.  You are.  Are you talking about god, love, or yourself...now?

Quote:In all that it uses love of the beauty of the source, and it assumes some actions of people are done with those intentions, and you form images based on visions of the value of the connection to the source o all value.

Derp Derp Derp.

Quote:You cannot love without the guide and connection to God, the face of God is the true nature of love, everything has an aspect of the face of God, and when you love somone you form a judgment with respect to the archetype connection and beauty, the beautiful name of God, the Navigator to the just world we await.

-or I just love my wife, like a normal fucking person.  50/50.

Quote:He is saying, unless we know everything possible to know, we should not rule out the possibility of knowing God.

This is true.

It manifestly is not true.  Sagan had a wonderful essay in Broca's Brain called 'Reflections On A Grain Of Salt'.  In brief:

Pure table salt is made of chlorine and sodium atoms, nothing else. In one grain of salt, there are more atoms than there are bits of information storable in the human brain.  Thus, it is impossible to know the position of every single atom in our grain.  We do, however, know the properties of sodium and chlorine, so we know how these atoms bind together.  We can even 'map out' the grain, so we know that if we look at a particular spot, we will find either a sodium atom or a chlorine atom.  We will never find, for example, an atom of helium or argon or astatine.

Thus, we don't always need to know everything to know what is or isn't there.  Ain't we the clever ones?

Boru

God is by definition unknowable and then we shouldn't rule out the possibility of knowing him?

(November 20, 2017 at 12:47 am)Cyberman Wrote: Atheism at its most basic has nothing to do with ruling out gods. It's about not ruling them in.

But Yahweh? The idiot that made the Universe in six days, man out of dust and woman out of a meatbone, who couldn't even find them when they were hiding behind a tree in the middle of the only habitable spot in existence? Whose kryptonite is anything made from iron? Yeah, we can be pretty certain that that bastard is purely - and poorly - fictional.

The kind of fiction most suited for a comic book.

---

(November 20, 2017 at 3:43 am)Haipule Wrote:

(November 20, 2017 at 12:47 am)Cyberman Wrote: Atheism at its most basic has nothing to do with ruling out gods. It's about not ruling them in.

But Yahweh? The idiot that made the Universe in six days, man out of dust and woman out of a meatbone, who couldn't even find them when they were hiding behind a tree in the middle of the only habitable spot in existence? Whose kryptonite is anything made from iron? Yeah, we can be pretty certain that that bastard is purely - and poorly - fictional.

Man out of the immortal plant stem cells found in the dust as well as other ingredients scientifically proven. And the woman made from the multipotent stem cells of the rib bone which grows back if the surgeon leaves the sheath intact. Is that what you mean? Naaaa, you don't believe in science.

I'm gonna give you major props as a theist if you'll confess that you think God's creation was accomplished with materials at hand, that he didn't just blink them into existence whole cloth.  I won't agree with you of course but I will still award you an Evolution Merit Badge to acknowledge your growth toward more interesting personhood.  You are positioned to accommodate all of science, whatever may be revealed by astronomy and evolutionary science, right along side your god belief.  Well done.

For any other believers interested in receiving a merit badge for growth toward more interesting personhood, these are some of the other categories I've awarded in the past:

Basic Agnosticism Badge - conferred on those believers who admit their belief is based on faith in the face of a mystery, that the existence of God is not simply an obvious empirical fact.

The Advanced Agnostic Badge is awarded to those who go even further to admit they do not know whether God is out there in the cosmos or inside their own noggins, but wherever He may be they honor Him.

The Literary Badge - goes to those who hold the bible not as 'the revealed word of God' but just as one of a number of potentially enlightening holy books.  The bible was written by men inspired by their thoughts about God and coalescing around the legends of their time.  It needs to be read as allegory, not as a reference book.  Like our DNA it is filled with junk no one cares about but there are cherries here to be had.  No one who wins this badge will ever regard the bible as "God's marching orders" or as a "contract from God".  

The Poetic Afterlife Badge is awarded to those who realize heaven and hell are not literal and neither is any ever-ever land for one's personal collection of neuroses, grudges, likes and dislikes.  Eternal life is like that of a rain drop, separate for a while then returned to the river, the ocean and again the sky.  What is eternal is neither personal nor particular.  Life, the web of life that is, goes on but thankfully our pettiness does not.

*It should be noted that not all atheists are award winning interesting persons, nor have we all won all of these badges.  Atheism is a broad tent.  But belief makes these badges much harder to win.  Every time a believer wins one of these badges, an angel earns his wings (poetically speaking of course).

(November 20, 2017 at 9:12 am)Whateverist Wrote:

(November 20, 2017 at 12:47 am)Cyberman Wrote: Atheism at its most basic has nothing to do with ruling out gods. It's about not ruling them in.

But Yahweh? The idiot that made the Universe in six days, man out of dust and woman out of a meatbone, who couldn't even find them when they were hiding behind a tree in the middle of the only habitable spot in existence? Whose kryptonite is anything made from iron? Yeah, we can be pretty certain that that bastard is purely - and poorly - fictional.

The kind of fiction most suited for a comic book.

---

(November 20, 2017 at 3:43 am)Haipule Wrote: Man out of the immortal plant stem cells found in the dust as well as other ingredients scientifically proven. And the woman made from the multipotent stem cells of the rib bone which grows back if the surgeon leaves the sheath intact. Is that what you mean? Naaaa, you don't believe in science.

I'm gonna give you major props as a theist if you'll confess that you think God's creation was accomplished with materials at hand, that he didn't just blink them into existence whole cloth.  I won't agree with you of course but I will still award you an Evolution Merit Badge to acknowledge your growth toward more interesting personhood.  You are positioned to accommodate all of science, whatever may be revealed by astronomy and evolutionary science, right along side your god belief.  Well done.

For any other believers interested in receiving a merit badge for growth toward more interesting personhood, these are some of the other categories I've awarded in the past:

Basic Agnosticism Badge - conferred on those believers who admit their belief is based on faith in the face of a mystery, that the existence of God is not simply an obvious empirical fact.

The Advanced Agnostic Badge is awarded to those who go even further to admit they do not know whether God is out there in the cosmos or inside their own noggins, but wherever He may be they honor Him.

The Literary Badge - goes to those who hold the bible not as 'the revealed word of God' but just as one of a number of potentially enlightening holy books.  The bible was written by men inspired by their thoughts about God and coalescing around the legends of their time.  It needs to be read as allegory, not as a reference book.  Like our DNA it is filled with junk no one cares about but there are cherries here to be had.  No one who wins this badge will ever regard the bible as "God's marching orders" or as a "contract from God".  

The Poetic Afterlife Badge is awarded to those who realize heaven and hell are not literal and neither is any ever-ever land for one's personal collection of neuroses, grudges, likes and dislikes.  Eternal life is like that of a rain drop, separate for a while then returned to the river, the ocean and again the sky.  What is eternal is neither personal nor particular.  Life, the web of life that is, goes on but thankfully our pettiness does not.

*It should be noted that not all atheists are award winning interesting persons, nor have we all won all of these badges.  Atheism is a broad tent.  But belief makes these badges much harder to win.  Every time a believer wins one of these badges, an angel earns his wings (poetically speaking of course).

Evolution Merit Badge: The idea of 'creation' is from the Latin word creatura. There is no basis in Scripture for such a thought in the autographed languages of the bible. The biblical words all have to do with making, forming, building, etc. The first word in Genesis 1:1, translated 'created' is the Hebrew word barah which means: to speak into existence.

By the word of the LORD the heavens were made,
And by the breath(ruwack) of His mouth all their host. Psalm 33:6 NASB

The magic Hebrew word abracadabra, build from that word means: I have said it and it shall come to pass.

It however, does not mean ex nilio(Latin: from nothing) as the church teaches.

If we understand(not that I do) physics' 'vacuum mechanics', then the entire vacuum of space is energy. That energy has many names such as, Teswellian; dark(meaning 'unseen') matter; dark energy; aether(Nicola Tesla); plasma; orgon; zero point; etc. It's name depends on which physicist or, meta physicist thinks that they discovered it or they simply renamed it into a practical idea. I prefer zero point energy.

Another case in point is Einstein's theory of energy transference. I think Jesus turning the water into wine is an example of energy transference. I would have followed Him anywhere and I'm bringing my water bottle!

Like when God said, "Let there be light", I would say then that God spoke the universe into existence though commanding the zero point energy "TO BE" universe. I am quite sure that word wasn't "BANG". But, I have not yet ruled out BAZINGA!

(November 18, 2017 at 10:34 pm)Haipule Wrote: Psalm 14:1/53:1 A fool says in his heart, "there is no God".

Q) So, you're an atheist?
A) yes.

Q) That means that beyond your vast resources of ideas: there is no God?
A) There is no god.

That means that you are omniscient and that you ARE God!

Then bowing to my knees I yell out, "Command me my Lord!"

I like your idea for this porno so far......what comes next?

(November 20, 2017 at 3:43 am)Haipule Wrote:

(November 20, 2017 at 12:47 am)Cyberman Wrote: Atheism at its most basic has nothing to do with ruling out gods. It's about not ruling them in.

But Yahweh? The idiot that made the Universe in six days, man out of dust and woman out of a meatbone, who couldn't even find them when they were hiding behind a tree in the middle of the only habitable spot in existence? Whose kryptonite is anything made from iron? Yeah, we can be pretty certain that that bastard is purely - and poorly - fictional.

Man out of the immortal plant stem cells found in the dust as well as other ingredients scientifically proven. And the woman made from the multipotent stem cells of the rib bone which grows back if the surgeon leaves the sheath intact. Is that what you mean? Naaaa, you don't believe in science.

Yeah, well you believe that Jesus rises from the grave every Easter and bites the necks of unbelievers. This telling people what they do and don't believe is fun. Arrogant prick.

(November 20, 2017 at 4:49 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote:

(November 18, 2017 at 10:34 pm)Haipule Wrote: Psalm 14:1/53:1 A fool says in his heart, "there is no God".

Q) So, you're an atheist?
A) yes.

Q) That means that beyond your vast resources of ideas: there is no God?
A) There is no god.

That means that you are omniscient and that you ARE God!

Then bowing to my knees I yell out, "Command me my Lord!"

I like your idea for this porno so far......what comes next?

God's penis in a volcano?

I must admit it's not your standard porno.

(November 20, 2017 at 4:51 pm)Cyberman Wrote:

(November 20, 2017 at 3:43 am)Haipule Wrote: Man out of the immortal plant stem cells found in the dust as well as other ingredients scientifically proven. And the woman made from the multipotent stem cells of the rib bone which grows back if the surgeon leaves the sheath intact. Is that what you mean? Naaaa, you don't believe in science.

Yeah, well you believe that Jesus rises from the grave every Easter and bites the necks of unbelievers. This telling people what they do and don't believe is fun. Arrogant prick.

Yeah, obviously Jesus and I hate fun! If Jesus came to us today we would be in the hot tub with prostitutes eating good food and drinking good wine--talking story! Amen(so-be-it!). Your confusing a relationship with God with the complete stupidity of religion and theology which I also hate. The bible in its autographed languages does not teach religion or theology--the clergy did that. God just said, "Choose life".

Anything else you want me to know I'm doing?