I think you can do better than that, godnose. Atheism is indeed set on a course to defeat religion. Religion does not equate exclusively to "wonder," and so there is no need of religion as a trapping of being impressed and amazed by the natural world.

Wow, slipped from judgement right into prophecy didn't we God. It's good to have fortune tellers in our midst. So, what sorts of services should we be replacing? Stoning? Sin taxation? Seizure of property? Molestation of children? Psychological abuse? Fraud? Willful ignorance? Ethnocentrism? Fatwas? Holy War?

To repeat. All of those "essential services" are already spoken for. That some priest gave you good advice one day is no reason for atheism as a whole to adopt a priesthood. If you think the purpose of the priesthood was to give out advice and essential services in the first place, you are sorely mistaken. A priest is now and has always been a forward concentration of religious authority. Anything else they may do is ancillary. That is the purpose of the priesthood. Keep you in check, keep you in line, and keep you quiet. Priests are the foot soldiers of god. Exactly how is that an essential service, and exactly what is there worth emulating in the office of a priest?

There were once traveling "doctors" that treated "mania" in women with all manner of fun little devices that you find at the XXX shop today. Should we bring those guys back to, before civilization crumbles due to their absence? Hell, lets bring back every misguided and worthless profession that man has ever dreamt up. Wouldn't want to find ourselves lacking. Why priests and not inquisitors God? Isn't the eradication of witchcraft an essential service? Don't want peoples cattle to die while their penises shrivel up from black magic, do we?

As far as the global communities inability to help when your house catches fire. Meh, why don't you ask a priest to help you with that. Maybe he can pray away the flames. (you could of course call the fire dept, but you already have a history of seeking out the help of unqaulified religious individuals when better secular options exist, why stop now?) If clergy hadn't been the instigators of some of the worst abuses of humanity ever witnessed they'd probably get more sympathy nowadays. What can I say, they hitched their wagon to the wrong horse.

I think the OP should change the thread title to:

Problems in my head...

You see, this is why I won't retract the previous statement where I called you a poe:

"If ever you get the urge to experience a taste of Hell, I recommend that you join, and actively participate in, an internet forum."

Are you for real? If you honestly hate it here that much, that you would proceed to equate a forum with a religious concept's state/place of great suffering; an unbearable experience, then why don't you just leave dumbass? The rest of us on the other hand actually enjoy spending our free-time here; there are some phenomenally good debaters here who apply reason and critical thinking to various topics. We listen to what people are saying and by doing so we learn from each other and build up a better unbiased picture of reality.

(August 18, 2011 at 7:00 am)Godnose Wrote: My purpose in wanting to provide alternative, atheist based facilities is specifically not to bolster religion or religiosity, but rather to subvert the need for religious-based structures by replacing them with atheist based ones.

What is wrong the aforementioned secular alternatives? And if you actually want to preserve these historic buildings/structures instead go speak to an architect, renovator or other contractor whose profession is in the heritage trade. Arguing with us is not going to achieve that goal - actually go outside and apply yourself.

Quote:The point of atheism is not to "defeat religion", the point of atheism is to refute the concept of a deity.

No. Its not our goal to refute said concepts. Atheism is just the lack of belief in a deity or deities. We can respond to, but don't actually have to refute evidence-free religious claims that haven't demonstrated themselves to be remotely true or met their burden of proof.

Quote:Oh yeah, the so-called "global village". Wow, you can TALK to someone in some other part of the world. Big deal. How's that going to help stop your house burning down if it catches fire?

That's the emergency services' job. >.>

(August 18, 2011 at 11:32 am)LastPoet Wrote: I think the OP should change the thread title to:

Problems in my head...

Looking back at his emotional outbursts, I would have to agree with you there.

I thought, Godnose, that I would answer to your initial post, instead of trying to emerge myself in the debates that's going on already.

I do not feel that there's any problem of being an atheist. I do not lack the sense of a community and have never come across such a problem.

As for there not being an equivalent for your parish priest; you don't know many people, do you? And just because he was probably such a great guy that he didn't judge you for your atheism, it doesn't say much about his profession. It just says a lot about his character. It's not the fault of atheism, if you don't have people in your life that you feel like you can rely on. Since I don't know the slightest about your relations, I'm not going to dwell on it any further. This is just how you come across to me.

I say that sound advice should be listened to, no matter where it comes from. If I want advice I ask my friends, and there is a mixture of pagans, muslims, christians, agnositcs and atheists alike. I would be a fool if I sieved out advice, just because the person I was getting it from wasn't an atheist. If I want opinions on a matter that isn't in my nearest circles, I tend to see what people on this forum has to say. To slight internet acquaintances is also foolish, from here I get a larger perspective, not colored by the cultural aspects of my own country. As always, advice should be listened to, but in the one has to decide for himself if it's worth listening to. On the other hand I can understand if you're one of those who prefer to speak about pressing matters with someone face to face. For me, the anonymity of the internet forums is wonderful.

An atheist church sounds like bad idea to me, but obviously it's something you wish for. In that case, why don't you do something about it? If you believe your idea to be great and that many would benefit from having such a gathering, then you could be the one to make it happen. Problems can't be solved by wishing them away, you have to actively work on them. I don't know how big a community you live in, but if it's possible and there's other atheists around, why not start this as a project yourself?

Do you care to tell us what your moral dilemma was? I'm curious to know, though I understand if you do not want to reveal it here.

(August 17, 2011 at 11:01 am)Godnose Wrote:

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I am an atheist, however that leads to certain problems. So this thread is intended for discussion of the problems that can arise from being an atheist.

One of my big problems about atheism is the lack of community. Something that religions do well is to provide a community structure and support system. There is no equivalent for the atheist. There is no such thing as an "atheist community". There is no equivalent to the parish priest to whom I can take my troubles.

A while ago I had a big moral dilemma for which I needed objective advice and support. It was not something I was able to discuss with my family, in fact it concerned members of my family and my attitude to a decision that one of them had made. The only person I found I was able to get any kind of useful support from was the minister of the local church, with whom I was at the time only very slightly aquainted.

The fact is that, despite knowing that I am an atheist, he was extremely helpful and his advice opened me up to a point of view which I had been unable to achieve on my own, and which helped me deal with the situation. He even asked if I minded if he said a little prayer for me (which I agreed to, feeling it a very small price for the advice I had received).

I would have preferred to have been able to take my problem to someone with a similar role, but without the religion, only there is no-one. There is within atheism no structure for such a person. There is no structure of anything within atheism. On a local level, I mean.

What I think is needed is a kind of atheist church, a place where atheists can meet regularly to celebrate their atheism and in order to develop a sense of community. Only how on earth such a thing could be brought about is completely beyond me. Any ideas?

---

Interesting thread. So atheists claim that atheism is not a religion but now they want churches?

Godnose does. I'd rather have a pub.

(August 18, 2011 at 1:54 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Interesting thread. So - atheism is not a religion but now -some nutjob- want's churches?

Fixed that for you. WB btw Stat, shall we head back over to the thread of shame?

(August 18, 2011 at 2:01 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(August 18, 2011 at 1:54 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Interesting thread. So - atheism is not a religion but now -some nutjob- want's churches?

Fixed that for you. WB btw Stat, shall we head back over to the thread of shame?

Fixed it by ruining the grammar? "Want's"? What kind of word is that?

Actually, let me retract that -

I'd still like to have a pub, but I wouldn't be against an "Atheist Center" or something like that on the grounds that here in the South, as in other places, many people want sanctuary in some form from society or families who abandon them because of their atheism.

What I object to is his idea that atheists need anyone in a "priest role".

This shouldn't be a thread about the problems with atheism. What you really needed to ask, Godnose, is what your options were as an atheist.

Christ on a pogo stick...is that a kudos from Statler? o_O