I've never met so many openly bisexual (or variations of) women in one place either, such as it is on AF. It's refreshing to see so much openness, and casualness about it, but it is still curious; because I don't see the same thing, or at least not in the same way, with guys. I think a lot of it may come down to their being much more acceptance of female homosexuality both internally and externally (socially); as a general rule, males have a lot more hangups about it, and pressure to overcome... social; peer pressure... and internal; negative, emasculating associations of what it would mean to entertain homosexual feelings, let alone explore them or act on them. I don't know if women face similar pressures, but it doesn't seem so, not in the same way, and it seems quite the contrary, in other ways, with TV often seeming to promote bisexual experimentation among females but not males.

(November 25, 2017 at 2:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I wonder if asexuality is a hormone deficiency of sorts rather than an actual orientation...
.
If all the right hormones are there and functioning properly, I can't understand, from a biological standpoint, why the sexual urges would be absent.

Well, it doesn't mean there isn't an explanation, dunno if any research has been done about that, my sister shrink should know or give me sources on that. Part of my skepticism comes from accepting to answer people with "I don't know", instead of postulating hypothesis that might be wrong.

(November 25, 2017 at 2:34 pm)emjay Wrote: I've never met so many openly bisexual (or variations of) women in one place either, such as it is on AF. It's refreshing to see so much openness, and casualness about it, but it is still curious; because I don't see the same thing, or at least not in the same way, with guys. I think a lot of it may come down to their being much more acceptance of female homosexuality both internally and externally (socially); as a general rule, males have a lot more hangups about it, and pressure to overcome... social; peer pressure... and internal; negative, emasculating associations of what it would mean to entertain homosexual feelings, let alone explore them or act on them. I don't know if women face similar pressures, but it doesn't seem so, not in the same way, and it seems quite the contrary, in other ways, with TV often seeming to promote bisexual experimentation among females but not males.

I agree that to males it might be harder to come out homossexual than gals.

A story: I have a coworker, a 21 yo. He kept ribbing me and others in homophobic remarks. All he talked about was how gay we all were. Eventually I told him, that he is the only one talking about it, that he spent all the time talking how gay others were. Later he approached me and said "How did you found out?". Yeah, he is gay. Yet he feels pressure to call others gay. I told him "Fabio, I am old enough to be your dad, the only thing that makes a man of your age to be so concerned about others sexuality, revolves around its own doubts.

Should be pretty obvious

(November 25, 2017 at 2:37 pm)LastPoet Wrote:

(November 25, 2017 at 2:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I wonder if asexuality is a hormone deficiency of sorts rather than an actual orientation...
.
If all the right hormones are there and functioning properly, I can't understand, from a biological standpoint, why the sexual urges would be absent.

Well, it doesn't mean there isn't an explanation, dunno if any research has been done about that, my sister shrink should know or give me sources on that. Part of my skepticism comes from accepting to answer people with "I don't know", instead of postulating hypothesis that might be wrong.

Oh I know. I just figure sex hormones are responsible for sex drive. So if the sex drive is so low to where the person doesn't even feel sexual attraction to anyone, it makes sense on paper that it could be influenced by an imbalance or deficiency of sex hormones. But i wouldn't rule out other causes, whatever they may be. It's just a guess.

(November 25, 2017 at 2:47 pm)LastPoet Wrote:

(November 25, 2017 at 2:34 pm)emjay Wrote: I've never met so many openly bisexual (or variations of) women in one place either, such as it is on AF. It's refreshing to see so much openness, and casualness about it, but it is still curious; because I don't see the same thing, or at least not in the same way, with guys. I think a lot of it may come down to their being much more acceptance of female homosexuality both internally and externally (socially); as a general rule, males have a lot more hangups about it, and pressure to overcome... social; peer pressure... and internal; negative, emasculating associations of what it would mean to entertain homosexual feelings, let alone explore them or act on them. I don't know if women face similar pressures, but it doesn't seem so, not in the same way, and it seems quite the contrary, in other ways, with TV often seeming to promote bisexual experimentation among females but not males.

I agree that to males it might be harder to come out homossexual than gals.

A story: I have a coworker, a 21 yo. He kept ribbing me and others in homophobic remarks. All he talked about was how gay we all were. Eventually I told him, that he is the only one talking about it, that he spent all the time talking how gay others were. Later he approached me and said "How did you found out?". Yeah, he is gay. Yet he feels pressure to call others gay. I told him "Fabio, I am old enough to be your dad, the only thing that makes a man of your age to be so concerned about others sexuality, revolves around its own doubts.

Should be pretty obvious

You're probably the most open-minded (ie non-hang-upped) straight guy I've ever met... the complete antithesis of the example of overcompensation you give of that guy. I really respect that in you I mean, I know you're straight, but you approach homosexuality with the same sort of casualness that I'm talking about with the women here... it's very rare I find.

(November 25, 2017 at 3:06 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 25, 2017 at 2:37 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Well, it doesn't mean there isn't an explanation, dunno if any research has been done about that, my sister shrink should know or give me sources on that. Part of my skepticism comes from accepting to answer people with "I don't know", instead of postulating hypothesis that might be wrong.

Oh I know. I just figure sex hormones are responsible for sex drive. So if the sex drive is so low to where the person doesn't even feel sexual attraction to anyone, it makes sense on paper that it could be influenced by an imbalance or deficiency of sex hormones. But i wouldn't rule out other causes, whatever they may be. It's just a guess.

Well that's fair enough as long as you don't consider that 'deficiency' to be unhealthy or 'abnormal' in a bad way. The problem with words like 'deficiency' or 'lack' is they have a connotation that implies 'not enough', as in, that asexuals don't have the sex hormones that they should have.

It's the same reason I always object when atheists say they 'lack belief in god', because an absence is not a lack. A lack would suggest that we 'don't believe enough', whereas an absence just means we 'don't believe'.

I do think that a sex drive is entirely biochemical and asexuals have an absence of a sexual biochemistry. The problem is that words like 'deficiency' have connotations that you probably didn't intend. I'm sure you don't mean that asexuals lack the sex drive that they should have, you merely mean their sex drive is absent. But your statement could be misunderstood that way.

It's similar even with words like 'imbalance'. Because 'balance' is considered to be a good thing. And, for instance, people are often medicated with drugs like lithium to correct an imbalance in the brain, because their brain chemicals are not as balanced as they should be ('balanced' often means 'stable', for instance, and imbalanced or unbalanced often means 'unstable', which definitely also has a negative connotation. But even when we're not talking about stability or instability, balance is often considered good and imbalance bad, just as moderation is considered good and immoderation bad).

And of course I know you would never suggest that asexuals be given medication that increases their sex drive to correct an 'imbalance'. I know that you mean 'imbalance' and 'deficiency' in a purely neutral way, but the problem with words like those and words like 'lack' is they don't have neutral connotations and they can easily be misunderstood for you suggesting that there's something wrong, abnormal or unhealthy with asexuality rather than it simply being less common.

(November 25, 2017 at 3:09 pm)emjay Wrote: You're probably the most open-minded (ie non-hang-upped) straight guy I've ever met... the complete antithesis of the example of overcompensation you give of that guy. I really respect that in you I mean, I know you're straight, but you approach homosexuality with the same sort of casualness that I'm talking about with the women here... it's very rare I find.

Heh, if I somehow could turn gay, I would be running to England, emjay. Alas...

In some ways my life would be a lot more difficult if I was openly bisexual because of the stigma and prejudice against bisexuality and homosexuality that still exists. And in one way I think it would make my life easier, because I'd probably actually get laid more often, because in my experience men ask women or other men out, a lot more often than women ask men out (I bet that one of the reasons I never really 'get laid' is down to the fact that I never ever ever ask a woman out because I'm too afraid of rejection . . . and I don't think women don't ask me out because I'm thunderously unattractive, I think women don't ask me out because, at least here in the UK, it's extremely rare for women to ask men out).

Going into "out there" territory now, but is it a thing to be attracted to something other than people? Like animals or objects. I know there are fetishes involving stuff like that, but I'm talking about someone not being attracted to people at all, and instead, being attracted to something inhuman. If so, is that an "orientation" as well?

(November 25, 2017 at 3:19 pm)LastPoet Wrote:

(November 25, 2017 at 3:09 pm)emjay Wrote: You're probably the most open-minded (ie non-hang-upped) straight guy I've ever met... the complete antithesis of the example of overcompensation you give of that guy. I really respect that in you I mean, I know you're straight, but you approach homosexuality with the same sort of casualness that I'm talking about with the women here... it's very rare I find.

Heh, if I somehow could turn gay, I would be running to England, emjay. Alas...

Alas indeed But believe it or not, it's not cos of that that I think this about you... our jokey/flirty dynamic is just a nice bonus ... ie that openminded-ness just comes out in everything you say on the subject. You're one of a kind