(November 28, 2017 at 12:17 am)Astreja Wrote: I've loved magic all my life, but to say I believe in it would be a bit of a stretch.

What I really would like to do, though, is discover a scientific basis and methodology for it and make it real.

I think Penn and Teller would have no problem if you love a good illusion. But lets not confuse a stage act as being real. 

I think you can leave behind the woo words like "magic" and say our species ability to have imagination leads to newer technology. No need to call that natural curiosity "magic". 

We as a species didn't get from wondering about human flight to making it a reality by clinging to "magic'.

You can certainly update scientific method and methodology when new data and scientific ideas come about sure, but no need to use such an old word like "magic".

"Magic" is a stage act. Getting to the moon is science.

Science IS magic, it always has been. Do you think those stage acts or witchcrafts e.t.c were pulled off without science?

I wish I could make certain people disappear.

(November 28, 2017 at 11:11 am)Cod Wrote: I wish I could make certain people disappear.

depends... how much cash you got?

(November 28, 2017 at 11:05 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: Science IS magic, it always has been. Do you think those stage acts or witchcrafts e.t.c were pulled off without science?

Or, as the redoubtable Arthur C. Clarke put it, 'Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.'

Boru

(November 28, 2017 at 11:17 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(November 28, 2017 at 11:05 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: Science IS magic, it always has been. Do you think those stage acts or witchcrafts e.t.c were pulled off without science?

Or, as the redoubtable Arthur C. Clarke put it, 'Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.'

Boru

Yep... well most of the current tech around me is "significantly advanced" already as far as I am concerned.

(November 28, 2017 at 11:05 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: Science IS magic, it always has been. Do you think those stage acts or witchcrafts e.t.c were pulled off without science?

Everything humans do is a result of science. But I have no desire to fuel the superstitions of others.

Penn and Teller as I said, would have no problem with anyone liking a good TRICK, and yes, stage tricks are very imaginative and certainly based on things like physics sure. 

But there are those who lie and are con artists who really want you to believe bullshit as if it were real, and con people with it. 

Entertainment is fine. FOOLING the eye takes talent, but it is still a trick. Nothing wrong with liking a good trick as  long as you accept it as such.

But please, don't feed the con artists by allowing them to equate what Penn And Teller CONSTANTLY and RIGHTFULLY admit to as a TRICK.

There are imaginative people yes. And there are cons too who take advantage of the gullible.

There is no such thing as "magic". There are people who are ethical and admit what they do is an illusion. Then there are the cons, like psychics.

P.T. Barnum, " There's a sucker born every minute.".

I have no problem with entertainment when someone isn't lying about it. I do have a problem with con artists.

Penn and Teller use the right word, "illusion." "Magic" to me has far too much old woo superstition baggage for me to prop it up or promote it.

Quote:Everything humans do is a result of science.

This is so far from true that it falls into the category of 'not even wrong.'

Boru

(November 28, 2017 at 12:15 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

Quote:Everything humans do is a result of science.

This is so far from true that it falls into the category of 'not even wrong.'

Boru

  If you want to take that out of context you can.

Our existence is a result of natural evolution which IS an observation in the form of scientific explanations of evolutionary biology. 

Even the flaw of human perceptions is explained by the sciences in the form of psychology, psychiatry and neuroscience.

I never claimed every human constantly spends every waking moment thinking in natural terms, we most certainly don't. All I meant by that is we are a result of nature.

Our senses, even our flawed perceptions are natural. THAT is all I meant by that.

(November 28, 2017 at 1:56 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 28, 2017 at 12:15 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: This is so far from true that it falls into the category of 'not even wrong.'

Boru

  If you want to take that out of context you can.

Our existence is a result of natural evolution which IS an observation in the form of scientific explanations of evolutionary biology. 

Even the flaw of human perceptions is explained by the sciences in the form of psychology, psychiatry and neuroscience.

I never claimed every human constantly spends every waking moment thinking in natural terms, we most certainly don't. All I meant by that is we are a result of nature.

Our senses, even our flawed perceptions are natural. THAT is all I meant by that.

Then you should choose your words more carefully.  'Science' and 'nature' don't mean the same thing.

Boru