(December 4, 2017 at 4:07 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Anti-theism isn;t a response to any single shitty believer..or even a group of them.  It's a comment on the ideology itself.  There are a great many other, more accurate, terms that refer to people who think that religious assholes are assholes.

I think it goes further than merely not being in agreement with the ideology.  I think of it as being an advocate of that ideology's dissolution.  Do we agree on that?  

Don't get me wrong, if the day should come when no one anywhere worshiped literal gods, no one would be happier than I.  But I think being an anti-theist obliges me to speak out against it at every opportunity or to work toward that day in some other manner.  When it comes to exercising persuasion for the cause, I'm content to leave it to adults to decide for themselves.  That is, of course, unless they want to discuss it or, gawd help them, want to persuade me to their ideology - but even then, only so long as scripture is left out.  Nothing is worth sitting through that crap.

(December 4, 2017 at 4:33 pm)Whateverist Wrote: I think it goes further than merely not being in agreement with the ideology.  I think of it as being in favor of dissuading those who do hold to that ideology away from doing so.  Do we agree on that?  

You think we go door to door or something? 

Quote:Don't get me wrong, if the day should come when no one anywhere worshiped literal gods, no one would be happier than I.  But I think being an anti-theist obliges me to speak out against it at every opportunity or to work toward that day in some other manner.

Nope.

Quote:When it comes to exercising persuasion for the cause, I'm content to leave it to adults to decide for themselves.

So am I...I'm not exactly putting anyone's thumbs in screws....that's the believers style.

Quote:That is, of course, unless they want to discuss it or, gawd help them, want to persuade me to their ideology - but even then, only so long as scripture is left out.  Nothing is worth sitting through that crap.

It's useful for making the case regarding anti-theism.  I think that a person who doesn't have time for scripture probably -isn't- going to "get" anti-theism.  OTOH, they'll constantly find themselves in the position of being told some horrid thing that the faithful are supposed to believe and thinking to themselves "No, surely not, surely they don't believe in that, do they?"..and no sooner will they ask than some believer will come along to tell them that they do, ofc...and ask them why they haven't read magic book.    

-and that's when an anti-theist cocks their head to the side, gives you the wide eyeballs and whispers -"I told you these fuckers were crazy." Anti-theism is nothing more or less than the position that theistic ideology is bad for people.

Antitheism is opposition to theism. To oppose is to resist or dissent. I would think an antitheist would have to at least argue against theism, not just passively hold the opinion that 'of course it would be NICE if everyone was an atheist'.

I think many atheists oppose religious dogma or less-than-benign practices; but don't necessarily oppose deism, mere theism, or the most benign (from a typical Western atheist's point of view) denominations like Quakers or UCC. The Quakers and UCC are on my side on most issues, I have trouble clutching my pearls over them believing in God.

Aloha AF:

Thank you for your responses. I cannot defend religion. I cannot defend theology. I look at the church like a brick looks at a stained glass window!

I wish to defend the Bible which is anti religious and anti theology. I have read it in it's autographed language honoring every aspect of the grammatical inflection and syntax. The English bible has been corrupted by theologians to teach the their fantasy theologies. It is horrific what they have done and continue to do to it! And then they call their nonsense 'spiritual truth'. Really?! The Inquisition? They can only see the bible with their doctrinal prescription eyeglasses on. They can not see it purely with 20/20 vision, as they are veiled. This shit is handed down from seminary professor to student, century after century.

Words you will NOT find in the autographed language; creation, salvation, sin, trinity, spirit, spirituality, soul, conscience, Christ, repent, gospel, born again, blasphemy, baptism, eternal, grace, hate, heaven, hell. And yet, they fight over these stupid words which are not even God's! They have ecclesiastisized and spiritualized these words into nothingness.

The bible is simply instructions to live well and not be a jackass! So, you can see how far off they are. The bible says we go to God because we trust He is there and hiring. Those who go to Him are not cast out. The bible identifies people as either useless goats led by goat herders or useful sheep led by a shepherd. I'm sorry, is this getting too complicated?

In the Caribbean, you cannot tell a sheep from a goat. They look exactly the same! The only way to tell them apart is to look at the tail. If the tail is arrogantly up, it is a goat. If it is humbly down, it is a sheep. So, if you are wondering whether you are a sheep or a goat, just turn around and look!

Yet, someone will say, "So, your the only one that's right and EVERYBODY else is wrong!" "Do you see a problem with that?" NO! My problem is why me, why now?

(December 4, 2017 at 6:04 pm)Haipule Wrote: Aloha AF:

Thank you for your responses. I cannot defend religion. I cannot defend theology. I look at the church like a brick looks at a stained glass window!

I wish to defend the Bible which is anti religious and anti theology. I have read it in it's autographed language honoring every aspect of the grammatical inflection and syntax. The English bible has been corrupted by theologians to teach the their fantasy theologies. It is horrific what they have done and continue to do to it! And then they call their nonsense 'spiritual truth'. Really?! The Inquisition? They can only see the bible with their doctrinal prescription eyeglasses on. They can not see it purely with 20/20 vision, as they are veiled. This shit is handed down from seminary professor to student, century after century.

Words you will NOT find in the autographed language; creation, salvation, sin, trinity, spirit, spirituality, soul, conscience, Christ, repent, gospel, born again, blasphemy, grace, hate, heaven, hell. And yet, they fight over these stupid words which are not God's! 

The bible is simply instructions to live well and not be a jackass! So, you can see how far off they are. The bible says we go to God because we trust He is there and hiring. Those who go to Him are not cast out. The bible identifies people as either useless goats led by goat herders or useful sheep led by a shepherd. I'm sorry, is this getting too complicated?

In the Caribbean, you cannot tell a sheep from a goat. They look exactly the same! The only way to tell them apart is to look at the tail. If the tail is arrogantly up, it is a goat. If it is humbly down, it is a sheep. So, if you are wondering whether you are a sheep or a goat, just turn around and look!

Yet, someone will say, "So, your the only one that's right and EVERYBODY else is wrong!" "Do you see a problem with that?" NO! My problem is why me, why now?

Anti-theism doesn't care about your translation.  The idea is shitty in any language. That you've scrubbed so much from your own "god" leads me to suspect that you're halfway to where I'm at anyway. Get back to me when it';s sound and noise, signifying nothing...and then I'll ask you what could possibly go wrong when people believe in sound and noise that signifies nothing.

(December 4, 2017 at 6:02 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Antitheism is opposition to theism. To oppose is to resist or dissent. I would think an antitheist would have to at least argue against theism, not just passively hold the opinion that 'of course it would be NICE if everyone was an atheist'.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there seems to be two definitions of anti-theism floating around here. One is a rejection and negative attitude toward theism. I think Nietzsche fits the bill here:

"Prayer has been devised for such men as have never any thoughts of their own, and to whom an elevation of the soul is unknown, or passes unnoticed; what shall these people do in holy places and in all important situations in life which require repose and some kind of dignity?"

But another take on it seems to be an opposition to the continuance of religion at all in society. By this second definition, an anti-theist is one who is opposed to the fact that Baptists gather and worship every Sunday in the church down the street. I don't think Nietzsche qualifies as an anti-theist by this second definition.

So which is it: a rejection/negative attitude toward religion, or opposition to the practice of religion in society? (Or is it either/both?)

(December 4, 2017 at 6:02 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: The Quakers and UCC are on my side on most issues, I have trouble clutching my pearls over them believing in God.

The Quakers do not require one to believe in God to become a full member. One can be an atheist, no problem. I'm am not a Quaker, but I have been to a few meetings. It's basically an hour of meditation. Granted, they do have Christian roots, and most Quakers are Christians, but apparently one can be an atheist Quaker.

(December 4, 2017 at 6:30 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: So which is it: a rejection/negative attitude toward religion, or opposition to the practice of religion in society?

It's both, there's just no requirement that a person go door to door, picket a baptist church, or think that theism should be outlawed.

(December 4, 2017 at 6:13 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(December 4, 2017 at 6:04 pm)Haipule Wrote: Aloha AF:

Thank you for your responses. I cannot defend religion. I cannot defend theology. I look at the church like a brick looks at a stained glass window!

I wish to defend the Bible which is anti religious and anti theology. I have read it in it's autographed language honoring every aspect of the grammatical inflection and syntax. The English bible has been corrupted by theologians to teach the their fantasy theologies. It is horrific what they have done and continue to do to it! And then they call their nonsense 'spiritual truth'. Really?! The Inquisition? They can only see the bible with their doctrinal prescription eyeglasses on. They can not see it purely with 20/20 vision, as they are veiled. This shit is handed down from seminary professor to student, century after century.

Words you will NOT find in the autographed language; creation, salvation, sin, trinity, spirit, spirituality, soul, conscience, Christ, repent, gospel, born again, blasphemy, grace, hate, heaven, hell. And yet, they fight over these stupid words which are not God's! 

The bible is simply instructions to live well and not be a jackass! So, you can see how far off they are. The bible says we go to God because we trust He is there and hiring. Those who go to Him are not cast out. The bible identifies people as either useless goats led by goat herders or useful sheep led by a shepherd. I'm sorry, is this getting too complicated?

In the Caribbean, you cannot tell a sheep from a goat. They look exactly the same! The only way to tell them apart is to look at the tail. If the tail is arrogantly up, it is a goat. If it is humbly down, it is a sheep. So, if you are wondering whether you are a sheep or a goat, just turn around and look!

Yet, someone will say, "So, your the only one that's right and EVERYBODY else is wrong!" "Do you see a problem with that?" NO! My problem is why me, why now?

Anti-theism doesn't care about your translation.  The idea is shitty in any language.  That you've scrubbed so much from your own "god" leads me to suspect that you're halfway to where I'm at anyway.  Get back to me when it';s sound and noise, signifying nothing...and then I'll ask you what could possibly go wrong when people believe in sound and noise that signifies nothing.

*Sigh* Let me give you some background "noise". Hundreds of years before Jesus, a man from Greece named Alexander the Great, conquered the world. He demanded that all nations surrender to him in HIS language which was Attic Greek. That language became the language of the world. Attic Greek is itself a dialect of the Classical Greek.

Alexander did this because he knew there was no wiggle room for loop hole and interpretation in his language. After the demise of Alexander, his Attic Greek degraded into local area dialects around the world, including Jerusalem, called Koine Greek. That is the language of the NT.

Koine Greek is highly inflective. It is a root word with alphabet soup telling us the precise inflection of noun declension and verb conjugation. Greek is a precision Swiss watch while English is a sun dial at night with the largest dictionary in the world so that we can explain a thought. "My translations" are the honor of those inflections! The language itself is the interpretation. So PLEASE don't make me a part of that.

"Shitty?" To whom to you give that authority to call anything God, "shitty"? Everything Christian and religion has degraded into shit! Friend, you are self deceived because you do not challenge words. Your whole life is your anecdotal evidence that their is no God. Congratulations!

(December 4, 2017 at 7:08 pm)Haipule Wrote:

(December 4, 2017 at 6:13 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Anti-theism doesn't care about your translation.  The idea is shitty in any language.  That you've scrubbed so much from your own "god" leads me to suspect that you're halfway to where I'm at anyway.  Get back to me when it';s sound and noise, signifying nothing...and then I'll ask you what could possibly go wrong when people believe in sound and noise that signifies nothing.

*Sigh* Let me give you some background "noise". Hundreds of years before Jesus, a man from Greece named Alexander the Great, conquered the world. He demanded that all nations surrender to him in HIS language which was Attic Greek. That language became the language of the world. Attic Greek is itself a dialect of the Classical Greek.

Alexander did this because he knew there was no wiggle room for loop hole and interpretation in his language. After the demise of Alexander, his Attic Greek degraded into local area dialects around the world, including Jerusalem, called Koine Greek. That is the language of the NT.

Koine Greek is highly inflective. It is a root word with alphabet soup telling us the precise inflection of noun declension and verb conjugation. Greek is a precision Swiss watch while English is a sun dial at night with the largest dictionary in the world so that we can explain a thought. "My translations" are the honor of those inflections! The language itself is the interpretation. So PLEASE don't make me a part of that.

"Shitty?" To whom to you give that authority to call anything God, "shitty"? Everything Christian and religion has degraded into shit! Friend, you are self deceived because you do not challenge words. Your whole life is your anecdotal evidence that their is no God. Congratulations!

The Bible is still a compilation of ancient fables cobbled together.  So while I honor your linguistic skills and might be intrigued by your "new" translation, I would not take the book as anything other than a vaguely interesting historical document.  I see no evidence for a deity, and any evidence that I would accept would not come from old fables.

No fancy words are needed. People are tired of stupid religious BS. Plus that god is a real jerk.