Anti-Theism

[Fireball]

*Sigh* Let me give you some background "noise". Hundreds of years before Jesus, a man from Greece named Alexander the Great, conquered the world. He demanded that all nations surrender to him in HIS language which was Attic Greek. That language became the language of the world. Attic Greek is itself a dialect of the Classical Greek.

Alexander did this because he knew there was no wiggle room for loop hole and interpretation in his language. After the demise of Alexander, his Attic Greek degraded into local area dialects around the world, including Jerusalem, called Koine Greek. That is the language of the NT.

Koine Greek is highly inflective. It is a root word with alphabet soup telling us the precise inflection of noun declension and verb conjugation. Greek is a precision Swiss watch while English is a sun dial at night with the largest dictionary in the world so that we can explain a thought. "My translations" are the honor of those inflections! The language itself is the interpretation. So PLEASE don't make me a part of that.

"Shitty?" To whom to you give that authority to call anything God, "shitty"? Everything Christian and religion has degraded into shit! Friend, you are self deceived because you do not challenge words. Your whole life is your anecdotal evidence that their is no God. Congratulations!

The Bible is still a compilation of ancient fables cobbled together.  So while I honor your linguistic skills and might be intrigued by your "new" translation, I would not take the book as anything other than a vaguely interesting historical document.  I see no evidence for a deity, and any evidence that I would accept would not come from old fables.

Well said. I was going to respond to his claims, but you've said it better than I probably would have.

[Whateverist]

So which is it: a rejection/negative attitude toward religion, or opposition to the practice of religion in society?

It's both, there's just no requirement that a person go door to door, picket a baptist church, or think that theism should be outlawed.

Well that (my bolded) is a relief.

Maybe the way to nail down what an anti-theist is is to say how being that is different from being an atheist.

[GrandizerII]

I sort of get Agnosticism, Agnostic Atheism and Atheism. Although, there is a blur, they do all start with "A" It seems to me that Atheism is as diverse as Christianity. Christianity has it's 5 major idiot clowns; Tertullian; Origen; Augustine; Martin Luther; John Calvin.

I'm quite sure Atheism also has it's clowns. I mean, Carl Sagan...really?

What I don't understand is the anti-theism among Atheists. If there is no Deity then, why bash what you don't believe even exists?

Yet, I fully understand anti-Christianity. I am a Christian but, those five clowns followers call me a heretic!

There are a bunch of reasons.

1) Religion has some negative consequences on the world.  So if the atheist is a humanist, and sees people getting harmed because of something, they probably will dislike that something.  Like a person back during the spanish inquisition might be mad at Catholicism because their kid got cut in half.  

2) Atheism is culturally hip.  People like to shit on the squares.  Religious folk are now the squares.  It's just a sociological thing.  Look how smart I am! Watch me give the dumb theist a wedgie.  See how smart I am for not being a dumb theist!  I is one of the smart people and defunutly not is dum!

3) There's definitely an us against them aspect.  People stereotype.  A few theists told a few atheists they were going to hell.  Some atheists hold all the theists responsible for it.

I'm sure there are plenty more reasons for different people.

Trying to act different when youre not that different at all, lol.

[Haipule]

*Sigh* Let me give you some background "noise". Hundreds of years before Jesus, a man from Greece named Alexander the Great, conquered the world. He demanded that all nations surrender to him in HIS language which was Attic Greek. That language became the language of the world. Attic Greek is itself a dialect of the Classical Greek.

Alexander did this because he knew there was no wiggle room for loop hole and interpretation in his language. After the demise of Alexander, his Attic Greek degraded into local area dialects around the world, including Jerusalem, called Koine Greek. That is the language of the NT.

Koine Greek is highly inflective. It is a root word with alphabet soup telling us the precise inflection of noun declension and verb conjugation. Greek is a precision Swiss watch while English is a sun dial at night with the largest dictionary in the world so that we can explain a thought. "My translations" are the honor of those inflections! The language itself is the interpretation. So PLEASE don't make me a part of that.

"Shitty?" To whom to you give that authority to call anything God, "shitty"? Everything Christian and religion has degraded into shit! Friend, you are self deceived because you do not challenge words. Your whole life is your anecdotal evidence that their is no God. Congratulations!

The Bible is still a compilation of ancient fables cobbled together.  So while I honor your linguistic skills and might be intrigued by your "new" translation, I would not take the book as anything other than a vaguely interesting historical document.  I see no evidence for a deity, and any evidence that I would accept would not come from old fables.

Thank you but, the bible is not a collection of "fables". It's just instructions the religious world unfortunately calls "Law". Well, they got the first point wrong. The rest is a mess. Even Jesus called them a "brood of vipers". He also said, "You make one proselyte, and make him twice the son of hell". As Paul said, "A little leaven leavens the whole lump". That lump is nui stinky Bruddah!

Someone might well ask, "Why would God allow that to happen--again". I would WAG that the reason is to protect us from outside attack and from our own stupid selves. Apparently, He has an independent plan.

The only evidence for God will always be your own life and everything you experience in it and that is the only evidence that will be worth a damn. Independent of ideas from external sources and independent of circumstance beyond your ability.

My life is evidence for God because, it has been spectacular beyond my dreams as His book promised. So, am I blessed by a God or, am I smart? I ain't smart! I was just at the perfect place at the perfect time in history to be in perfect places beyond my control. I didn't rape the stock market and rape the housing market to get rich. I was scrared to death but, getting rich! And when the market crashed on my birthday, September 29th, 2008, I was cashed out and partying in a casino in Conneticut! Laughing my ass off! While people are telling me "I must be smart". What a joke! Of course, it's my 20/20 crystal ball and quigey board! Unless you believe in luck?

[The Grand Nudger]

Maybe the way to nail down what an anti-theist is is to say how being that is different from being an atheist.

Sure.  An atheist doesn't believe in gods.  Full stop.  An anti-theist holds strong objections to theistic ideology.

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Antitheism is opposition to theism. To oppose is to resist or dissent. I would think an antitheist would have to at least argue against theism, not just passively hold the opinion that 'of course it would be NICE if everyone was an atheist'.

I think many atheists oppose religious dogma or less-than-benign practices; but don't necessarily oppose deism, mere theism, or the most benign (from a typical Western atheist's point of view) denominations like Quakers or UCC. The Quakers and UCC are on my side on most issues, I have trouble clutching my pearls over them believing in God.

Is there any confusion over whether or not I oppose or can argue against theism, lol? My anti-theism simply isn't all defining, any moreso than my atheism is. There are reasons I don;t go door to door...one of them being that I can;t bring myself to be that kind of asshole. I don't "clutch my pearls" over anyone believing in god, but I have no trouble pointing out that most of whats wrong with any theistic belief is just as present in the "benign" religions, and the notion that they -are- benign is part of whats wrong with theism.  That we seek to describe "benign" religions (and adherents) by their relative lack of faithful religiosity is demonstrative. Look at this guy, down here, getting upset that someone thinks his shit is shitty......and he;s one of the goofy quacks that tries to take everything he thinks is objectionable out of his religion.  

"Shitty?" To whom to you give that authority to call anything God, "shitty"? Everything Christian and religion has degraded into shit! Friend, you are self deceived because you do not challenge words. Your whole life is your anecdotal evidence that their is no God. Congratulations!

It didn't degrade into anything, that's where it started. It's entirely unsurprising that it all collapsed like a flan in a cupboard.

[Cyberman]

"Shitty?" To whom to you give that authority to call anything God, "shitty"?

Myself, for I have no authority over anyone else. Outside of this august organ, of course.

[Mister Agenda]

The Quakers do not require one to believe in God to become a full member. One can be an atheist, no problem. I'm am not a Quaker, but I have been to a few meetings. It's basically an hour of meditation. Granted, they do have Christian roots, and most Quakers are Christians, but apparently one can be an atheist Quaker.

One can be an atheist UCC, too. The tolerance of those sects is one of the reasons I find them mostly unproblematic.

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Antitheism is opposition to theism. To oppose is to resist or dissent. I would think an antitheist would have to at least argue against theism, not just passively hold the opinion that 'of course it would be NICE if everyone was an atheist'.

I think many atheists oppose religious dogma or less-than-benign practices; but don't necessarily oppose deism, mere theism, or the most benign (from a typical Western atheist's point of view) denominations like Quakers or UCC. The Quakers and UCC are on my side on most issues, I have trouble clutching my pearls over them believing in God.

Is there any confusion over whether or not I oppose or can argue against theism, lol?  

Are you under some impression that I don't believe that you're an anti-theist?

[The Grand Nudger]

Are you under some impression that I don't believe that you're an anti-theist?

LOL, no, I was responding to this, though -

 I would think an antitheist would have to at least argue against theism, not just passively hold the opinion that 'of course it would be NICE if everyone was an atheist'. 

Neither is a requirement for anti-theism.  An anti-theist can passively maintain their own internal opposition and arguments.  I don't spend my days handing out tracts or evangelizing - but this doesn't alter the accuracy of the term with regards to my position, as opposed to..say, an atheist who doesn't believe but also thinks that at least -some- brands of theism are meaningfully unobjectionable. It's unlikely that anyone I interact with IRL knows I'm an anti-theist, even though most realize I'm an atheist after spending any amount of time around me.

So, you know how we sometimes hear "you're an atheist with regards to all the other gods" from atheists, in response to theists claims. I make a similar observation. Theists are anti-theists with regards to all other god claims. Atheists, OTOH, may not be anti-theists about -any- god claims....but they usually are with regards to at least one. To them, I'd say that I feel about all the other theistic claims the way they do about the target of their own ire.

[Whateverist]

Maybe the way to nail down what an anti-theist is is to say how being that is different from being an atheist.

Sure.  An atheist doesn't believe in gods.  Full stop.  An anti-theist holds strong objections to theistic ideology.

Looks like you're not going to let me hang an "evangelical skeptic" moniker on you to differentiate what you are as an anti-theist over and above what I am as a simple atheist. I'm sure there are varieties of theistic ideologies which we all hold strong objections to. Everybody hates the ideology of the Westboro baptists. For that matter, most of the theists we meet here are anti-theist in regard to denominations that aren't their own. Christians tend to hate what mormons believe. I hate scientology; if I could, I'd have everyone who has profited from that church thrown in jail.

So would you say an anti-theist would be someone who holds strong objections to every form of theistic ideology, or just most of them?

[The Grand Nudger]

Looks like you're not going to let me hang an "evangelical skeptic" moniker on you to differentiate what you are as an anti-theist over and above what I am as a simple atheist.

Only because it doesn't fit.  That doesn't mean that there aren't people who mobilize their objections.  Hitchens comes to mind as a vocal and evangelizing anti-theist.  Plenty of atheists reference his material with regards to the abrahamic god..but miss, I think, the thrust of his contention that the abrahamic god is just one expression of why -theism- is abhorrent.  

I'm sure there are varieties of theistic ideologies which we all hold strong objections to.  Everybody hates the ideology of the Westboro baptists.  For that matter, most of the theists we meet here are anti-theist in regard to denominations that aren't their own.  Christians tend to hate what mormons believe.  I hate scientology; if I could, I'd have everyone who has profited from that church thrown in jail.

So would you say an anti-theist would be someone who holds strong objections to every form of theistic ideology, or just most of them?

The term is pretty explicit in that regard, don;t you think?  Anti-theism.  Not anti-christianism, anti-hinduism, anti-islamism....etc. The examples some person are willing to toss under the bus aren't theism gone wrong..they're theism done right...and that's the problem with theism -all of it-.