(December 23, 2017 at 10:41 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I think the idea that feminists "control more resources" is laughably inaccurate.

I think the idea that feminists “control more resources” is a gut feeling by undiligent men nourishing a decidedly unmacho eagerness to blame others who have not dmade good use of what they were given And are thus have not lived up to their own sense of entitlement based on sex, towards women who had offended that sense of entitlement by achieving more in status and influence with better use of of what they had been given.

Mermaid, even though I can't directly relate with your experience I can understand the emotion behind your thoughts. There is no denying women face societal pressures to adhere to feminine virtues. Don't feel like I'm belittling your hardships in your life but men face the exact same type of societal pressure to adhere to masculine virtues, it's unfair to think one side face more hardships than the other, I myself feel men face much more social problems than women because I'm a man and I relate more to the male experience but even though I feel this I can imagine women face just as much different but equal inequalities as well, I'm of the opinion that equal importance should be given to both. 🙂

Another thing to note is a woman won't have the exact same "bro status" or "one of the guys" status within a guy group the same way a man won't have the same "one of the girls" status or "bestie status" within a girl's group, mainly because there is a certain limit or etiquette to be maintained when dealing with people of the opposite sex no matter how close you are with them the comfort level won't be as same as with same sex friends.

As far as social problems are concerned I think men have more social problems because I'm a man and I relate to the male experience more, I won't be able to relate to the female experience as much but I'm still of the opinion that equal importance should be given to both, I think you should too, though I think you already do but if someone is reading this that don't then I direct this to them.

Mermaid Wrote:I want equal opportunity for ALL PEOPLE regardless of sex. I love men. I am not a man-hating dyke although I have been called that for expressing these thoughts to others. I don't want special stuff. I don't deny anyone their own story of their own struggles. I want to listen and understand. I don't want special treatment. I want a level playing field.

Most feminists are just like this, the more moderate, general feminists are exactly like this...but feminism isn't what it used to be, people with extreme views have started using feminism to get rich and popular (big red is a big example), I feel like moderate feminists like yourself and others that take on the label of feminist are being used by the one's making all the money, what I feel is that these people appeal to emotion of the general population and gain support from them, then use them as a baseline to reap money and support from. Just be careful, the kind of political power feminism has today in the US doesn't just come from protesting or fighting against the system, there is probably serious money behind it, so if I were you I'd make sure I'm not getting used like a puppet for somebody else's ends.

I didn't watch the documentary; but following the definition: 

Quote:noun
noun: feminism

1. the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.
   

Does it suggest that women and men are the same thing? but biology says otherwise.

The crash against the reality -which is the difference between men and women-, is staggering in my opinion. It's a very bad thing for men to get pregnant or for women to produce semen.

If a woman is producing semen from her vagina, something is seriously wrong with her.
If a man gets pregnant, something is seriously wrong with his anatomy.

I think feminism fails because men and women are not the same. The misunderstanding is a misunderstanding of definitions; even in the animal kingdom females and males differ; one example is bees; another is lions.

Feminism -to me at least- is a group of angry women pouring their wrath on males; taking all men for the sins of few...or maybe many. But definitely not all
A better thing, is to give male and female genders their rights; and acknowledge the biological differences.

Men go hunt because they have more muscle mass. If Rachel wants to join the hunt; she can be my guest but she won't grow as much muscle mass as the men; and moreover she is a human; not a cougar, and of course she's not a black widow.

(December 23, 2017 at 1:22 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: I didn't watch the documentary; but following the definition: 

Quote:noun
noun: feminism

1. the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.
   

Does it suggest that women and men are the same thing? but biology says otherwise.

The crash against the reality -which is the difference between men and women-, is staggering in my opinion. It's a very bad thing for men to get pregnant or for women to produce semen.

If a woman is producing semen from her vagina, something is seriously wrong with her.
If a man gets pregnant, something is seriously wrong with his anatomy.

I think feminism fails because men and women are not the same. The misunderstanding is a misunderstanding of definitions; even in the animal kingdom females and males differ; one example is bees; another is lions.

Feminism -to me at least- is a group of angry women pouring their wrath on males; taking all men for the sins of few...or maybe many. But definitely not all
A better thing, is to give male and female genders their rights; and acknowledge the biological differences.

Men go hunt because they have more muscle mass. If Rachel wants to join the hunt; she can be my guest but she won't grow as much muscle mass as the men; and moreover she is a human; not a cougar, and of course she's not a black widow.

It is most definitely not that men and women are the same, that is ludicrous. Of course we are different.

---

(December 23, 2017 at 1:22 pm)pool the matey Wrote: Mermaid, even though I can't directly relate with your experience I can understand the emotion behind your thoughts. There is no denying women face societal pressures to adhere to feminine virtues. Don't feel like I'm belittling your hardships in your life but men face the exact same type of societal pressure to adhere to masculine virtues, it's unfair to think one side face more hardships than the other, I myself feel men face much more social problems than women because I'm a man and I relate more to the male experience but even though I feel this I can imagine women face just as much different but equal inequalities as well, I'm of the opinion that equal importance should be given to both. 🙂

Another thing to note is a woman won't have the exact same "bro status" or "one of the guys" status within a guy group the same way a man won't have the same "one of the girls" status or "bestie status" within a girl's group, mainly because there is a certain limit or etiquette to be maintained when dealing with people of the opposite sex no matter how close you are with them the comfort level won't be as same as with same sex friends.

As far as social problems are concerned I think men have more social problems because I'm a man and I relate to the male experience more, I won't be able to relate to the female experience as much but I'm still of the opinion that equal importance should be given to both, I think you should too, though I think you already do but if someone is reading this that don't then I direct this to them.

I am not claiming that everyone doesn't endure hardships. What I am claiming is that too many people gloss over, deny and even get angry about women (and minorities, actually) speaking out against injustices. 

Of course everyone has to endure cultural pressures, and I would not minimize that. That's kind of the point. Do you feel that men and women are on a level playing field? I do not. 

Men and women are different, I don't think anyone denies that. The key is to listen and not be dismissive or defensive. An example: I got in to a conversation with a large group of men and women about how women usually have a certain fear of bodily harm while dating and are always on guard, that's just life as a woman. Most of the men got angry and defensive as they are not all rapists and would never pose a threat to women. Of course not. But the fact remains, women don't know that, so we have to be careful and toe a line while meeting up with people we don't know and can't trust yet. That is just the way it is. I find this to be a very very difficult concept to effectively communicate.

(December 23, 2017 at 1:27 pm)Mermaid Wrote:

(December 23, 2017 at 1:22 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: I didn't watch the documentary; but following the definition: 



Does it suggest that women and men are the same thing? but biology says otherwise.

The crash against the reality -which is the difference between men and women-, is staggering in my opinion. It's a very bad thing for men to get pregnant or for women to produce semen.

If a woman is producing semen from her vagina, something is seriously wrong with her.
If a man gets pregnant, something is seriously wrong with his anatomy.

I think feminism fails because men and women are not the same. The misunderstanding is a misunderstanding of definitions; even in the animal kingdom females and males differ; one example is bees; another is lions.

Feminism -to me at least- is a group of angry women pouring their wrath on males; taking all men for the sins of few...or maybe many. But definitely not all
A better thing, is to give male and female genders their rights; and acknowledge the biological differences.

Men go hunt because they have more muscle mass. If Rachel wants to join the hunt; she can be my guest but she won't grow as much muscle mass as the men; and moreover she is a human; not a cougar, and of course she's not a black widow.

It is most definitely not that men and women are the same, that is ludicrous. Of course we are different.

The definition of Feminism states it explicitly:

Quote:on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

And there's the problem. If we got an agreement on the biological facts, and that the definition of feminism is quite outdated and old; things would differ.

(December 23, 2017 at 1:37 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(December 23, 2017 at 1:27 pm)Mermaid Wrote: It is most definitely not that men and women are the same, that is ludicrous. Of course we are different.

The definition of Feminism states it explicitly:

Quote:on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

And there's the problem. If we got an agreement on the biological facts, and that the definition of feminism is quite outdated and old; things would differ.

That is about opportunity, not sameness with regard to biology.

(December 23, 2017 at 1:27 pm)Mermaid Wrote: I am not claiming that everyone doesn't endure hardships. What I am claiming is that too many people gloss over, deny and even get angry about women (and minorities, actually) speaking out against injustices. 

Of course everyone has to endure cultural pressures, and I would not minimize that. That's kind of the point. Do you feel that men and women are on a level playing field? I do not. 

Men and women are different, I don't think anyone denies that. The key is to listen and not be dismissive or defensive. An example: I got in to a conversation with a large group of men and women about how women usually have a certain fear of bodily harm while dating and are always on guard, that's just life as a woman. Most of the men got angry and defensive as they are not all rapists and would never pose a threat to women. Of course not. But the fact remains, women don't know that, so we have to be cTareful and toe a line while meeting up with people we don't know and can't trust yet. That is just the way it is. I find this to be a very very difficult concept to effectively communicate.

That's it: minorities.
Women, people from a different race, homosexuals...etc.

The minority is always bashed. Humans have this disgusting trait, sadly. I'm sure if women became the majority; men will be oppressed the same way.
Taking precautions during meeting men is a natural thing for women. Men too have this trait, but it's usually lesser than females. Experience and culture play a big role too: I can understand why feminism became so hardcore for example; so many men did shameful stuff to women.

(December 23, 2017 at 1:50 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: The minority is always bashed. Humans have this disgusting trait, sadly. I'm sure if women became the majority; men will be oppressed the same way.

I am a little confused by this. We are 50:50.

(December 23, 2017 at 1:38 pm)Mermaid Wrote:

(December 23, 2017 at 1:37 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: The definition of Feminism states it explicitly:


And there's the problem. If we got an agreement on the biological facts, and that the definition of feminism is quite outdated and old; things would differ.

That is about opportunity, not sameness with regard to biology.

I guess the definition is too broad then. It must be more specific

---

(December 23, 2017 at 1:52 pm)Mermaid Wrote:

(December 23, 2017 at 1:50 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: The minority is always bashed. Humans have this disgusting trait, sadly. I'm sure if women became the majority; men will be oppressed the same way.

I am a little confused by this. We are 50:50.

Not all men trash women; it's always a "number" of bad people in the population.
As men have their bad bunch; women too have their bad bunch

(December 23, 2017 at 1:54 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: I guess the definition is too broad then. It must be more specific

I think it's important not to get caught up in semantics.