(December 25, 2017 at 6:33 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(December 25, 2017 at 5:26 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Because my argument here isnt that women cant get relatively low-status jobs like secretary or nurse.

Nursing is hardly a "low-status" job. It's difficult and thankless work, but it carries respect and salary here.

But compared to a Doctor or a CEO it is.

(December 25, 2017 at 10:55 am)SaStrike Wrote:

(December 25, 2017 at 10:06 am)Grandizer Wrote: Nope, sorry, studies continue to show gender discrimination against women still a thing. Look up gendered name work application letter studies for example.

Apology accepted, and I disagree because it depends on what is being applied for. For a nightclub bouncer for example, would you hire a male or female? In this example I would hire shell B over thumpalumpacus, that doesnt mean im discriminating against the males, it's just she is more suited for the job.

For some reason, that was funny.

(December 25, 2017 at 6:33 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(December 25, 2017 at 5:26 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Because my argument here isnt that women cant get relatively low-status jobs like secretary or nurse.

Nursing is hardly a "low-status" job. It's difficult and thankless work, but it carries respect and salary here.

My partner is a nurse, and I have nothing but respect for what they do. It is, however, considered low status compared to other jobs in the field. This isnt just me saying it.

And they get underpaid here.

Nursing isn’t a high status career, but it is definitely one warranting respect and better pay than it currently pulls.

Oh hell yes . Nurses are overworked and underpaid and the risk they take is formidable. But it's not considered a high status job .

(December 25, 2017 at 6:33 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Bullocks this is a tired rehatch of the "life choices argument " And while their is no legal way of keeping woman out of these fields. Their is a cultural one  . That does keep women from not taking the subject up in the first place .

As for the idea men are not becoming nurses once again that patriarchy as our society pressures men into taking certain professions . But the kicker is a great many MRA advocates are the ones pressuring men to take "masculine jobs " it's a vast part of MRA culture . While feminists overwhelmingly have no such qualms . So who is discriminating selectively again?

I get fighting for making it legal. But fighting for it for other reasons like cultural and societal pressure is stupid. If majority of society thinks it's weird for men to do nursing then they think it's weird! (Unless you want to mind control the entire population into changing its opinion to suit your tastes?) Personally I don't see why women are pressured not to do engineering (went from a 50/50 split in high school to a like an 8-2 split in college, which I was not happy about)

Anyway back to the point. Yes there are forms of "pressure" affecting men and women's (alphabetical order!) decisions but I don't get the control freak nature of the radical feminists and mra who want to mind control the whole world to fit their own insecurities and reasoning. For example some "feminists" who openly criticize women who want to be house wives. They just refuse to accept the choice and try to back track entire centuries of history to find a way to be a victim. Imagine how a house wife must feel when there are "feminists" shaming her for her decisions. That's oppression???

(December 25, 2017 at 4:42 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

(December 25, 2017 at 11:58 am)Hammy Wrote: I guess we find different things off-putting. I find the loudness of The Amazing Arsehole more like a natural YouTuber where it seems like every softspoken line from Thunderf00t contains an air of smugness that says "Damn I'm good aren't I? Look how smart I sound! I know science too! I'm better than everyone else! And I'm not even going to try to be funny or gimicky about it."

I guess I actually find loud obnoxious arrogance less annoying than smarmy quiet smug arrogance lol.

I guess we can agree they're both total buttlholes

Thunderfoot and TJ are not really even the height of MRA scum on youtube . The youtube manosphere has many a reprehensible citizen .





And someone has been brave enough to do a series on it.

This satire on the Manosphere is funny:

I haven't seen the documentary so I know nothing about it. 

I would imagine there's some genuine, viable points made by MRA people.  

In terms of job roles there might be some valid criticism of unequal opportunity, but in cases of equal opportunity there'd still be unequal outcomes due to the difference in choices men and women make in their lifestyles.  
I think the two gangs at war (feminists and MRAs) both have some kind of point there.

One thing that I find pointless is the statement "We need more women (insert job role)"

What is definitely needed is an equal opportunity between men and women to do all jobs. We don't simply need more humans with vaginas rather than penises in that job role.  

This was in some newspaper article I read recently about the pop artist pink saying we need more female producers and engineers.

I went to a music collage and I don't remember many females there who wanted to sit behind a computer all day and night chopping up samples, tweaking synths, learning about mic directionality, cables and all the rest of it.  But plenty of men were there who could bore the fuck out of you by telling you "interesting" things about microphones.  And plenty of guys who would stay up for days taking stimulants making music on Reason.  

There will be some women who do want to do this but I imagine the ratio is about 1000 to 1. Even on this forum we have several male amateur music producers and I don't think a single female who is.  And the same goes for all the youtubers who I listen to in order to get advice on music production, they're 100% male.

On the other hand if my daughter wanted to get involved in music production I'd encourage her just as much as I would if I had a son doing it.

But this is just me talking about a very specific field that I have some experience in and have seen the difference in trends between men and women and how vast they are.

(December 25, 2017 at 7:31 pm)SaStrike Wrote:

(December 25, 2017 at 6:33 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Bullocks this is a tired rehatch of the "life choices argument " And while their is no legal way of keeping woman out of these fields. Their is a cultural one  . That does keep women from not taking the subject up in the first place .

As for the idea men are not becoming nurses once again that patriarchy as our society pressures men into taking certain professions . But the kicker is a great many MRA advocates are the ones pressuring men to take "masculine jobs " it's a vast part of MRA culture . While feminists overwhelmingly have no such qualms . So who is discriminating selectively again?

I get fighting for making it legal. But fighting for it for other reasons like cultural and societal pressure is stupid. If majority of society thinks it's weird for men to do nursing then they think it's weird! (Unless you want to mind control the entire population into changing its opinion to suit your tastes?) Personally I don't see why women are pressured not to do engineering (went from a 50/50 split in high school to a like an 8-2 split in college, which I was not happy about)

Anyway back to the point. Yes there are forms of "pressure" affecting men and women's  (alphabetical order!) decisions but I don't get the control freak nature of the radical feminists and mra who want to mind control the whole world to fit their own insecurities and reasoning. For example some "feminists" who openly criticize women who want to be house wives. They just refuse to accept the choice and try to back track entire centuries of history to find a way to be a victim. Imagine how a house wife must feel when there are "feminists" shaming her for her decisions. That's oppression???

---

Let's play a game of spot the radical feminist.

Woman 1 - I don't want to be president I want to be a nurse.
Woman 2 - WTF are you serious right Now? These fucking men have caused this shit.
Man 1 - I disagree. How can men cause It? I don't see anything wrong at all with a woman president.
Woman 2 - STFU society has pushed this agenda onto us women. If you don't agree you're an alt right sympathizer. I'm literally shaKing right now. These fucking dipshits.
Woman 3 - I wanna be a housewife!
Woman 2 - ..... please kill yourself.
Man 2 - I wanna be a stay at home dad!
Woman 2 - OMG!!1! SO CUTE :33

---

1. It's not mind control it's simply altering culture . Just like every other civil rights movement . You can pass all the laws you want . If the culture remains unchanged no progress will be made . And this has fuck all to do with tastes . 

2. You confuse patriarchy with men . Patriarchy is not a evil group of men who are oppressing women. It's a cultural idea(often held by men and women ) that locks woman and men into a certain  social context  . Often to the detriment of both genders. 


3. There may be 00000000000'1 percent of feminist who object to women being house wives .But it's not mainstream position by any stretch . And i point out there are more then enough MRA's who don't believe men should be stay at home dad's and will call them "Cucks" or "Manginia's " if they choose it .

4. As for this strawman of "radical feminists " it's just that a strawman . Woman 2 is figment of your imagination . And funny enough sounds a lot more like a typical poster at a AVFM just reverse the genders and the politics.

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Quote:In terms of job roles there might be some valid criticism of unequal opportunity, but in cases of equal opportunity there'd still be unequal outcomes due to the difference in choices men and women make in their lifestyles. 

The life choices argument does not work . As i have said . Via the notion of cultural pressure in a broad social context . (Please note i'm not saying men are oppressing women neither are most mainstream modern feminists . Most men and women have no clue their in this dance and both are being hurt by it.)

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Sorry to Strike and Paul if my tone seems hostile . It's nothing personal .  Just a subject i have been deeply involved in both professionally and personally . 

(December 25, 2017 at 6:23 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:Perhaps women are "less likely" to be those things because less women WANT to be those things. I don't see why you would immediately rule that out as a possibility.

This is overwhelmingly not the case . And social pressures to conform to societal standards overtly influence decisions of either sex. So pulling the" different life choices" card does not work.

When I was in high school and we were all getting counseled on choosing a career path for college, I never once felt any pressure to do anything or not do anything in particular. If I had wanted to be a surgeon, there wouldn't have been a single person trying to stop me. Much the opposite actually, I think people would have highly encouraged it.