The verse says:

Quote:Sura 51, The Quran:
( 47 )   And the heaven We constructed with hands, and indeed, We are expanding.

Quote:Sura 42, The Quran:
( 1 )   Ha, Meem.
( 2 )   'Ayn, Seen, Qaf.
( 3 )   Thus has He revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and to those before you - Allah, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
( 4 )   To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth, and He is the Most High, the Most Great.
( 5 )   The heavens almost break from above them, and the angels exalt [Allah] with praise of their Lord and ask forgiveness for those on earth. Unquestionably, it is Allah who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.
( 6 )   And those who take as allies other than Him - Allah is [yet] Guardian over them; and you, [O Muhammad], are not over them a manager.

Things "break" when they are "expanded"?

How did Mohammed know that heaven was expanding?
If we assumed ignorance and lying of the author of the Quran; why would they refer explicitly to such a fact?
Even a nomad Muslim in the desert 1400 years ago, would know that the skies (universe) is expanding. Not just that; actually saying otherwise defies the verse above.
The universe is expanding, by the direct statement of verse 47 of Sura 51 in the Quran, and the implicit referring by verse 5 of Sura 42

Long before Hubble's discovery. 1400 years approximately.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble%27s_law

Quote:Hubble's law is considered the first observational basis for the expansion of the universe

The verse in Arabic:

والسماء بنيناها بأيد وإنا لموسعون

Well according to my translation.

Sura 51, verse 47:

"We with power and skill
Did construct
The firmament :
For it is We Who create
The vastness of Space."

---

Ok so I did some searching and found out why our interpretations differ.

https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index...ic=16572.0

---

So your translation is of those AFTER the discovery. And they say Quran cannot be tampered with SMH!

Anyway all the twisting of translations and stuff aside, is heaven the universe? Or is heaven a different dimension where scientific laws don't apply? The two seem to get mixed up and used where ever preferable. So when we die we go to the outer universe? Please clarify. What exactly is heaven and what is the universe?

(January 5, 2018 at 5:42 am)SaStrike Wrote: Well according to my translation.

Sura 51, verse 47:

"We with power and skill
Did  construct
The firmament :
For it is We Who create
The vastness of Space."

---

Ok so I did some searching and found out why our interpretations differ.

https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index...ic=16572.0

I'm Arabic. So I will give literal translation of the Arabic verse:

و السماء بنيناها بأيد و إنا لموسعون

و السماء=And the heavens -literally-
بنيناها=We have built it
بأيد=With our hands
وإنا لموسعون=And we shall expand/ and we are its expanders (Literally; you either pick the first meaning or the second, it won't change the meaning).

That's the literal translation; no translators or websites for translation.
The language defies the interpretation you provided; and once again we witness how ignorant Sunni and Shiite scholars feed wrong translations everywhere.

(January 5, 2018 at 5:59 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(January 5, 2018 at 5:42 am)SaStrike Wrote: Well according to my translation.

Sura 51, verse 47:

"We with power and skill
Did  construct
The firmament :
For it is We Who create
The vastness of Space."

---

Ok so I did some searching and found out why our interpretations differ.

https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index...ic=16572.0

I'm Arabic. So I will give literal translation of the Arabic verse:

و السماء بنيناها بأيد و إنا لموسعون

و السماء=And the heavens -literally-
بنيناها=We have built it
بأيد=With our hands
وإنا لموسعون=And we expand

That's the literal translation; no translators or websites for translation.
The language defies the interpretation you provided; and once again we witness how ignorant Sunni and Shiite scholars feed wrong translations everywhere.

So based on your translation:
1) Allah is in outer space? so within our universe?
2) Allah's "hands" are dark matter?
3) We float around in outer space after we die? and we should be grateful for that?

God stretched the heavens (sky) is the interpretation. Look at the sky. Its clearly wide to the naked eye. Its the same thing the Bible says, btw. No miracle here.

(January 5, 2018 at 6:05 am)Aoi Magi Wrote:

(January 5, 2018 at 5:59 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: I'm Arabic. So I will give literal translation of the Arabic verse:

و السماء بنيناها بأيد و إنا لموسعون

و السماء=And the heavens -literally-
بنيناها=We have built it
بأيد=With our hands
وإنا لموسعون=And we expand

That's the literal translation; no translators or websites for translation.
The language defies the interpretation you provided; and once again we witness how ignorant Sunni and Shiite scholars feed wrong translations everywhere.

So based on your translation:
1) Allah is in outer space? so within our universe?
2) Allah's "hands" are dark matter?
3) We float around in outer space after we die? and we should be grateful for that?

1) I believe that all of outer space is just one heaven; AKA the lowest heaven:

Quote:Sura 67, The Quran:
( 3 )   [And] who created seven heavens in layers. You do not see in the creation of the Most Merciful any inconsistency. So return [your] vision [to the sky]; do you see any breaks?

We inhabit the lowest of the skies.

2-God is everywhere.

Quote:Sura 57, The Quran:
( 4 )   It is He who created the heavens and earth in six days and then established Himself above the Throne. He knows what penetrates into the earth and what emerges from it and what descends from the heaven and what ascends therein; and He is with you wherever you are. And Allah, of what you do, is Seeing.

His hands are literally a metaphor. If he is everywhere, then  what is he? a force? a material? I don't know.
There is this interesting verse, though:

Quote:Sura 6, The Quran:
( 103 )   Vision perceives Him not, but He perceives [all] vision; and He is the Subtle, the Acquainted.

3-Yes. Life is a beautiful thing, but in general, but this life is so ugly, full of death and misery, it's a test that's why. There is another universe coming. Some theists call it the afterlife, science even predicted it in some theories about parallel universes, and the Quran promised it will come:

Quote:Sura 14, The Quran:
( 48 )   [It will be] on the Day the earth will be replaced by another earth, and the heavens [as well], and all creatures will come out before Allah, the One, the Prevailing.

---

(January 5, 2018 at 6:21 am)Grandizer Wrote: God stretched the heavens (sky) is the interpretation. Look at the sky. Its clearly wide to the naked eye. Its the same thing the Bible says, btw. No miracle here.

In the verse, the word is "expand"=موسع
Expanding is not "stretching"=شد

In other words; you can say in Arabic:
البنطلون مشدود
The pants are stretched

But it will mean something totally different if you used "expand":
البنطلون موسع
The pants are expanded

Actually; if I go to a clothe shop and I want to "tighten my pants" I will never use the word "expand".
Heavens are expanding. Not shrinking. That's why theories like "The Big Freeze" are there.

(January 5, 2018 at 6:22 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(January 5, 2018 at 6:05 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: So based on your translation:
1) Allah is in outer space? so within our universe?
2) Allah's "hands" are dark matter?
3) We float around in outer space after we die? and we should be grateful for that?

1) I believe that all of outer space is just one heaven; AKA the lowest heaven:

Quote:Sura 67, The Quran:
( 3 )   [And] who created seven heavens in layers. You do not see in the creation of the Most Merciful any inconsistency. So return [your] vision [to the sky]; do you see any breaks?

We inhabit the lowest of the skies.

2-God is everywhere.

Quote:Sura 57, The Quran:
( 4 )   It is He who created the heavens and earth in six days and then established Himself above the Throne. He knows what penetrates into the earth and what emerges from it and what descends from the heaven and what ascends therein; and He is with you wherever you are. And Allah, of what you do, is Seeing.

His hands are literally a metaphor. If he is everywhere, then  what is he? a force? a material? I don't know.
There is this interesting verse, though:

Quote:Sura 6, The Quran:
( 103 )   Vision perceives Him not, but He perceives [all] vision; and He is the Subtle, the Acquainted.

3-Yes. Life is a beautiful thing, but in general, but this life is so ugly, full of death and misery, it's a test that's why. There is another universe coming. Some theists call it the afterlife, science even predicted it in some theories about parallel universes, and the Quran promised it will come:

Quote:Sura 14, The Quran:
( 48 )   [It will be] on the Day the earth will be replaced by another earth, and the heavens [as well], and all creatures will come out before Allah, the One, the Prevailing.

---

(January 5, 2018 at 6:21 am)Grandizer Wrote: God stretched the heavens (sky) is the interpretation. Look at the sky. Its clearly wide to the naked eye. Its the same thing the Bible says, btw. No miracle here.

In the verse, the word is "expand"=موسع
Expanding is not "stretching"=شد

In other words; you can say in Arabic:
البنطلون مشدود
The pants are stretched

But it will mean something totally different if you used "expand":
البنطلون موسع
The pants are expanded

Actually; if I go to a clothe shop and I want to "tighten my pants" I will never use the word "expand".
Heavens are expanding. Not shrinking. That's why theories like "The Big Freeze" are there.

To be precise, it means widened AFAIK. Wase3 = wide. I know Arabic, too. At least today's Arabic, and not the archaic Quranic Arabic.

Still, you didn't really address what I said in previous post. It doesn't matter if it's "stretched" or "widened", there's no miracle in there.

Atlas, can I come to your mosque and preach sex, drugs, and rock and roll?

Hehehe.

The word is "expanse".

It's locally accepted as meaning: "for it is We Who create the vastness of Space."

Revisionism will not be tolerated!!!

Not Hubble's Law! What a laugh! Allah still did not know more than his illiterate merchant warlord creator.