So, Aziz Ansari, that awkward tiny Indian comedian, got skewered today by feminists (it was a feminist website that ran it. this isn't an anti-feminist post, so chill out) and bandwagon hoppers all over the web because of a shit editorial on the site babe. Basically, he ordered white instead of red wine, went down on a chick, got a blow job from same chick, tried to get her to have sex with him and called her an Uber when she said she didn't want to and wanted to go home. The next morning, she told him that the encounter was awful and that she was upset that he didn't pick up on how uncomfortable she was. He apologized (sincerely in my opinion, as much as a text conversation can be). Her response? Tell a reporter all about it so he can be demonized for not being smooth. Even by her account, he stopped when she explicitly said no. It sucks that he was weird and that she felt uncomfortable. That doesn't make it assault.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opini...sment.html

Yeah, if she didn't like it, she should have said no right away. And if he stopped when she said no, then that's what should be expected. If he's having a fabulous time, he shouldn't be blamed for not noticing she's not enjoying it just as much, until she starts pushing him away and saying stop.

Yeah, there's this sort of movement toward the idea that women have to give explicit and constant consent during any sexual encounter that I'm not buying. I don't want to have to do that. If I say no, either physically by pushing a man away/keeping my legs firmly closed/hitting him or verbally by telling him no clearly, then I've not given consent. If I engage in sexual behavior with him, and don't say no, I consider it consent, even if it icked me out then or later. Now, I do understand that coercion is a bitch. It's happened to me, but only after I've clearly said no. I did this weird thing when I was younger. If I said no and the person basically behaved like or stated that I couldn't say no, I just froze mentally and went through the paces. I consider that assault. If I never said no and just went through the paces, then I had a shady encounter, but I can't blame anyone other than myself for not speaking up.

In this public discourse we are having about sexual assault it is important not to infantilize anyone.

Nuke his penis from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

As someone who's on the autism spectrum and sometimes has trouble picking up on social cues, this whole incident disturbs me to no end. You fuck up, you can get branded a sex offender for life. Game fucking over.

If nothing else, this is why we need to think through sexual misconduct allegations before we take a side either way.

I think your showing a rather edited view of this affair 
https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355

Here are some  excerpts 

Quote:She says Ansari began making a move on her that he repeated during their encounter. “The move he kept doing was taking his two fingers in a V-shape and putting them in my mouth, in my throat to wet his fingers, because the moment he’d stick his fingers in my throat he’d go straight for my vagina and try to finger me.” Grace called the move “the claw.”

Quote:But the main thing was that he wouldn’t let her move away from him. She compared the path they cut across his apartment to a football play. “It was 30 minutes of me getting up and moving and him following and sticking his fingers down my throat again. It was really repetitive. It felt like a fucking game.”

Quote:Throughout the course of her short time in the apartment, she says she used verbal and non-verbal cues to indicate how uncomfortable and distressed she was. “Most of my discomfort was expressed in me pulling away and mumbling. I know that my hand stopped moving at some points,” she said. “I stopped moving my lips and turned cold

Quote:Whether Ansari didn’t notice Grace’s reticence or knowingly ignored it is impossible for her to say. “I know I was physically giving off cues that I wasn’t interested. I don’t think that was noticed at all, or if it was, it was ignored.”

Quote:Ansari wanted to have sex. She said she remembers him asking again and again, “Where do you want me to fuck you?” while she was still seated on the countertop. She says she found the question tough to answer because she says she didn’t want to fuck him at all.

Quote:Grace says she spent around five minutes in the bathroom, collecting herself in the mirror and splashing herself with water. Then she went back to Ansari. He asked her if she was okay. “I said I don’t want to feel forced because then I’ll hate you, and I’d rather not hate you,” she said.

Quote:This moment is particularly significant for Grace, because she thought that would be the end of the sexual encounter — her remark about not wanting to feel “forced” had added a verbal component to the cues she was trying to give him about her discomfort. When she sat down on the floor next to Ansari, who sat on the couch, she thought he might rub her back, or play with her hair — something to calm her down.

Quote:Ansari instructed her to turn around. “He sat back and pointed to his penis and motioned for me to go down on him. And I did. I think I just felt really pressured. It was literally the most unexpected thing I thought would happen at that moment because I told him I was uncomfortable.”

Quote:

Halfway into the encounter, he led her from the couch to a different part of his apartment. He said he had to show her something. Then he brought her to a large mirror, bent her over and asked her again, “Where do you want me to fuck you? Do you want me to fuck you right here?” He rammed his penis against her ass while he said it, pantomiming intercourse

Quote:“I just remember looking in the mirror and seeing him behind me. He was very much caught up in the moment and I obviously very much wasn’t,” Grace said. “After he bent me over is when I stood up and said no, I don’t think I’m ready to do this, I really don’t think I’m going to do this. And he said, ‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

Quote:While the TV played in the background, he kissed her again, stuck his fingers down her throat again, and moved to undo her pants. She turned away. She remembers “feeling in a different mindset at that point.”

Quote:“I remember saying, ‘You guys are all the same, you guys are all the fucking same.’” Ansari asked her what she meant. When she turned to answer, she says he met her with “gross, forceful kisses.”

Quote:After that last kiss, Grace stood up from the couch, moved back to the kitchen island where she left her phone, and said she would call herself a car. He hugged her and kissed her goodbye, another “aggressive” kiss. When she pulled away, Ansari finally relented and insisted he’d call her the car. “He said, ‘It’s coming, but just tell them your name is Essence,’” she said, a name he has joked about using as a pseudonym in his sitcom.

Quote:She teared up in the hallway, outside his place, pressing the down button on the elevator. The Uber was waiting when she left the building. He asked if she was Essence, she said yes, and then she rode back to her Brooklyn apartment. “I cried the whole ride home. At that point I felt violated. That last hour was so out of my hand.”

Nothing you have posted is any different from an awkward sexual encounter where one person is less than enthusiastic, but doesn’t say no. Moreover, when she did, he stopped. Also, so what if he put his fingers in her mouth? They were being sexual. Women aren’t children. They’re perfectly capable of articulating what they like and don’t like. Don’t paint us as helpless victims who need to be handled like we have special needs. The guy is bad at sex and couldn’t take ambiguous cues. When it was made unambiguous, he immediately stopped.

(January 15, 2018 at 10:57 pm)Shell B Wrote: Nothing you have posted is any different from an awkward sexual encounter where one person is less than enthusiastic, but doesn’t say no. Moreover, when she did, he stopped. Also, so what if he put his fingers in her mouth? They were being sexual. Women aren’t children. They’re perfectly capable of articulating what they like and don’t like. Don’t paint us as helpless victims who need to be handled like we have special needs. The guy is bad at sex and couldn’t take ambiguous cues. When it was made unambiguous, he immediately stopped.

Then you clearly were not looking

(January 15, 2018 at 10:36 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: I think your showing a rather edited view of this affair 
https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355

Here are some  excerpts 

Quote:She says Ansari began making a move on her that he repeated during their encounter. “The move he kept doing was taking his two fingers in a V-shape and putting them in my mouth, in my throat to wet his fingers, because the moment he’d stick his fingers in my throat he’d go straight for my vagina and try to finger me.” Grace called the move “the claw.”

Quote:But the main thing was that he wouldn’t let her move away from him. She compared the path they cut across his apartment to a football play. “It was 30 minutes of me getting up and moving and him following and sticking his fingers down my throat again. It was really repetitive. It felt like a fucking game.”

Quote:Throughout the course of her short time in the apartment, she says she used verbal and non-verbal cues to indicate how uncomfortable and distressed she was. “Most of my discomfort was expressed in me pulling away and mumbling. I know that my hand stopped moving at some points,” she said. “I stopped moving my lips and turned cold

Quote:Whether Ansari didn’t notice Grace’s reticence or knowingly ignored it is impossible for her to say. “I know I was physically giving off cues that I wasn’t interested. I don’t think that was noticed at all, or if it was, it was ignored.”

Quote:Ansari wanted to have sex. She said she remembers him asking again and again, “Where do you want me to fuck you?” while she was still seated on the countertop. She says she found the question tough to answer because she says she didn’t want to fuck him at all.

Quote:Grace says she spent around five minutes in the bathroom, collecting herself in the mirror and splashing herself with water. Then she went back to Ansari. He asked her if she was okay. “I said I don’t want to feel forced because then I’ll hate you, and I’d rather not hate you,” she said.

Quote:This moment is particularly significant for Grace, because she thought that would be the end of the sexual encounter — her remark about not wanting to feel “forced” had added a verbal component to the cues she was trying to give him about her discomfort. When she sat down on the floor next to Ansari, who sat on the couch, she thought he might rub her back, or play with her hair — something to calm her down.

Quote:Ansari instructed her to turn around. “He sat back and pointed to his penis and motioned for me to go down on him. And I did. I think I just felt really pressured. It was literally the most unexpected thing I thought would happen at that moment because I told him I was uncomfortable.”

Quote:

Halfway into the encounter, he led her from the couch to a different part of his apartment. He said he had to show her something. Then he brought her to a large mirror, bent her over and asked her again, “Where do you want me to fuck you? Do you want me to fuck you right here?” He rammed his penis against her ass while he said it, pantomiming intercourse

Quote:“I just remember looking in the mirror and seeing him behind me. He was very much caught up in the moment and I obviously very much wasn’t,” Grace said. “After he bent me over is when I stood up and said no, I don’t think I’m ready to do this, I really don’t think I’m going to do this. And he said, ‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

Quote:While the TV played in the background, he kissed her again, stuck his fingers down her throat again, and moved to undo her pants. She turned away. She remembers “feeling in a different mindset at that point.”

Quote:“I remember saying, ‘You guys are all the same, you guys are all the fucking same.’” Ansari asked her what she meant. When she turned to answer, she says he met her with “gross, forceful kisses.”

Quote:After that last kiss, Grace stood up from the couch, moved back to the kitchen island where she left her phone, and said she would call herself a car. He hugged her and kissed her goodbye, another “aggressive” kiss. When she pulled away, Ansari finally relented and insisted he’d call her the car. “He said, ‘It’s coming, but just tell them your name is Essence,’” she said, a name he has joked about using as a pseudonym in his sitcom.

Quote:She teared up in the hallway, outside his place, pressing the down button on the elevator. The Uber was waiting when she left the building. He asked if she was Essence, she said yes, and then she rode back to her Brooklyn apartment. “I cried the whole ride home. At that point I felt violated. That last hour was so out of my hand.”

So...she never said any form of ‘no’, never verbally expressed her discomfort to him, and didn’t try to stop him in any way.  Nowhere in the transcript did she allege that he threatened or coerced her. She did not allege that he used his fame or status to intimidate her.  Unempathetic?  Perhaps.  Assault?  Where was the assault?  Seems like she was disappointed and frustrated that he wasn’t more attentive to her body language, which sucks (I’m sure most women have been in that situation at one time or another in their lives), but she said no, and went home.  Does he deserve a ruined career for that?