(January 16, 2018 at 11:49 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(January 16, 2018 at 11:08 pm)Haipule Wrote: Of course you have a better idea then taxing the hell out of those fucking rich people right? Whom will just move to the other county/state/country seduced with tax favors because they voted for smart people rather then idiots!

You think "those fucking rich people" are going to move to those shitholes we've been hearing about?  I doubt it.  

Quote:Yet, people think "trickle down" won't work?

Because it doesn't.  It's not as if we hadn't tried it and watched it fail over and over and over.....

Quote:Whereas, it is impossible not to work! Without rich people willing to invest everything for a dream, which includes loving and helping others to succeed, there ain't no jobs! Why would they ever invest without a return?

"If we don't let them rape and pillage we wont have any of their precious, precious moniez!!!  Double plus ungood!" 

Quote:Money works harder and employs far more people then the fuckin' govermament!

OFC it does, "Money" is for profit and requires labor to produce it.  Even the most exotic financial instrument has a tenous but often lethal connection to that reality.  When the asset the bet is made on becomes toxic - the bet becomes worthless.  Unfortunately, lobbyists have engineered it so that the profits from those bets are privatized even though we socialize the losses.

Quote:When I developed real estate I didn't imagine how many people I was feeding, putting shoes on there children's feet, paying college tuitions, until I met them and they told me!

More fairy tales, and awfully damned cheeky.  Trying to defend extortion by reference to a job you totally had in real estate?   

Quote:What? Is there a trickle up theory?

Yeah, it's called labor and productivity.  Unlike trickle down bullshit it actually works.  It's what the trickle down acolytes exploit to make their products, and to sell their products, and to create the funds they then suck up as corporate handouts.  I feel like it shouldn't be a controversial opinion to suggest that the working masses and the country as a whole not get fucked by corporate overlords or the rich engaging in next level welfare queenism.
-and yet here we are.

I'd figure you'd be onboard..we're basically discussing moneychangers are we not?  The world could use a few more flipped tables.  But if that just doesn't tickle your indignation bone..its fucking unamerican and anti-capitalist.  Capital and markets do not move freely when we allow a tiny fraction of individuals to extort the entire system, and the government is certainly not by the people, of the people, or even -for- the people when it sides with those interests over the interests of it's citizens.  Im not interested in pinko shit -or- a corrupt oligarchy.  

So tell me again why these hookers need to be given more money and concessions to incentivize them..whilst giving money or concessions to the working poor only makes them lazy?

K'den, your the rich fuck taking care of poor people!? They will not send you a fathers day card! You know whom they are, they are your employees! Without them you ain't shit! With out your leadership, they will run around like Wal-Mart employees! With your love they will kick ass! Whom have to put their children through college so that those children can, potentially, be as big a dumbfuck as you and employ more dumbfucks!!! Yeah, that'll work!

I belong to the black letter version of AARP! American Association of Rich People! We don't employ dumbfucks! We are "Keeping America strong and useful"! Because, we are weird and we are not dumbfucks!

Fuck dude! Have you ever tried being fucking weird, rich and actually hire dumbfucks and teach them how to be great? So that they can hire more dumbfucks and teach them how to be great? So on and so on?

It's as easy as God's love! Oh, I forgot--atheists can't employ God's love because there is no God! Sucks to be you!

.........................................................

"BOB SAGET!!!"

Fuck it, it's worth asking and risking another clown seizure for a response.

If I can't employ "gods love" because atheist..and you..as an alleged christian, have political and ideological objections™ to the relevant message of christ...then what good is this "god's love" shit supposed to be..again....?

(January 17, 2018 at 2:37 am)Khemikal Wrote: .........................................................

"BOB SAGET!!!"

Fuck it, it's worth asking and risking another clown seizure for a response.

If I can't employ "gods love" because atheist..and you..as an alleged christian, have political and ideological objections™ to the relevant message of christ...then what good is this "god's love" shit supposed to be..again....?

Be Usefulness, regardless of self. Greatness, regardless of your self-esteem. Seek Perfection being stupid of inadequacies. Just be weird(rich) for the benefit of others! BE WEIRD, it will never hurt you! They will love it! They need it! Just be a weirdo and love for Christ's sake!

Shit man, in love, the greatest benefactor(reciprocation) would be you! IT'S AWESOME! GIVE, GIVE, GIVE! Then GIVE more! Then YOU will know why, "It's soo cool bein' me!"

You don't believe me? Well then, how many times have you tried it!

Whenever someone types "GIVE GIVE GIVE", I ask myself who they want me to give to, and who they are themselves.

(January 17, 2018 at 3:37 am)Haipule Wrote:

Quote:If I can't employ "gods love" because atheist..and you..as an alleged christian, have political and ideological objections™ to the relevant message of christ...then what good is this "god's love" shit supposed to be..again....?

Be Usefulness, regardless of self. Greatness, regardless of your self-esteem. Seek Perfection being stupid of inadequacies. Just be weird(rich) for the benefit of others! BE WEIRD, it will never hurt you! They will love it! They need it! Just be a weirdo and love for Christ's sake!

Shit man, in love, the greatest benefactor(reciprocation) would be you! IT'S AWESOME! GIVE, GIVE, GIVE! Then GIVE more! Then YOU will know why, "It's soo cool bein' me!"

You don't believe me? Well then, how many times have you tried it!

So, not at all useful..is what I'm hearing here? Or, at least, you can't drum up any practical application. That doesn't bode well for the rest of us feckless heathens. After all, you're the only person with the straight dope from the almighty, capable of reading magic book the right way.

Quote:What? Is there a trickle up theory?

Yes their called the working class and the consumer class and the poor  . The people who actually drive the economy . And the rich fat cats who leech of their hard work while trying to do all they can to pay them as little as possible and themselves as much as possible.

In their defense..if they didn't try they'd just be replaced by people who would...and who would goosestep while doing so just to reassure shareholders.

(January 16, 2018 at 11:27 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(January 16, 2018 at 11:08 pm)Haipule Wrote: What? Is there a trickle up theory?

Why, yes there is. Do you think corporations are going to employ people to manufacture stuff that nobody can afford? When the working people have money in their pockets this weird thing happens--they spend it. They buy stuff with their money.

When the working people don't have money in their pockets, they don't buy stuff. And if nobody can buy the stuff you are making, then it doesn't matter what kind of dreamy-eyed job creator you are, you may as well not manufacture anything. Why? Because nobody has money to buy your stuff.

If you make sure working people have money in their pockets, they will spend that money. They will buy stuff. When they are able to buy stuff, it becomes feasible for a firm to produce goods for sale.

That's how "trickle up" economics works.

And it's not just that . The working class tend to spend most of their income thus circulating money in the economy . While the rich just horde it or move it offshore thus slowing the circulation down . Not to mention the fact the only reason those rich bastards have any money is due to the fact they have employees and the skim the profits off their work. 

(January 16, 2018 at 7:37 pm)Haipule Wrote:

(January 16, 2018 at 6:52 pm)Brian37 Wrote: While I like the social stance of liberal states, it still amounts to workers in every state not having enough to make ends meet.

The only way you fix that long term, is to raise wages, keep costs of living down and middle class and poor taxes down. The only bracket that needs to be taxed more are the billionaires first, multi millionaires. I still cannot shed a tear for some asshole like Trump who won't end up eating cat food if he gets taxed more.

You get taxed less in Red States, but you also make less, but even there costs are increasing at a faster pace than a worker can keep up with. 

When you average out the gap in all states, it still falls relatively in the same range and it is still growing.

If one looks up the tax rate between 48 and 1980 it was far higher on the rich than it is now, and that high tax helped create the economic boom in that time.

But since Reagan, the GOP have managed to con people into thinking small increases and small tax breaks for the middle class and poor will produce long term gains. But those minor breaks get beaten and eaten by the vastly bigger corporate welfare and those big corporations STILL raise prices which eats up any crumbs they give workers. IT IS A SCAM and it always has been.

Silicon Valley in CA and Farfaix County in Northern Va where I grew up, are now TWO of the most expensive places to live outside say big cities like NYC or San Fran Even the well of in Silicon Valley see that, not just fast food workers, but even middle class teachers have it really hard and they bleed off workers whom move because of the cost.

Then what? You move to say rural Oklahoma where it is cheaper, but you also don't make as much? 

Even where I live in rural NC better paying jobs can require you to drive further. One of my mom's former Nurses whom worked at the long term care travels an HOUR each way to work. Even the poorly paid aids there travel from a poor rural county for an hour too. 

It's nuts. And even from what you are telling me, while Hawaii is a more liberal state, I couldn't live there on the jobs I had. I wouldn't even move there with what my mom left me because it would get eaten up quickly. 

I don't see how anyone working retail or fast food there survives. But I can say that about NC too.

Your an interesting person Brian37! Your sense of humor is outrageous, even for me! People survive here, in Hawai'i well because of Ohana which means family. It is not unusual to see a multi-addition house with 6 mail boxes.

However, you cannot tax the rich because they have the means to leave. Boeing was always a big employer in Washington State. That is until they tried to tax them further. Then they moved to Chicago where they were given a tax break for just providing necessary jobs.

In California they tried to increase corporate taxes only to have the business and the jobs go next door to Nevada where there is no corporate tax. That was quite a boom for Nevada!

And if America wants to get rid of there rich, all they have to do is try and tax them unreasonably. There are places in the world BEGGING us to move there such as the Kingdom of Vanuatu. Does it really matter, in this computer-cell phone world were we choose to live?

I was amongst the richest on Maui and do you want to know what they brag about? How poor they are? Why? Taxes! Do you understand that I can pay a lawyer $10.000 dollars and that lawyer will structure me so I can qualify for Medicare?

You CANNOT fix the world, or this country, by overburdening rich people with taxes. They will just say FUCK YOU and leave! And they have the means to do so!

I don't find this funny at all. And no, who the hell is claiming I can fix the world? I do have a voice and if I can help make the country less lopsided I will use my voice.

No shit family lives together, that is fine, but not every body does. 

"You cant tax the rich otherwise they will leave".


BULLSHIT, we have in our tax code history had far higher tax rates. This blackmail, nothing more. If you expect me to feel sorry for billionaires you are a fool. There is a huge difference between "can't" and "don't want to". The rich CAN afford higher taxes, that is fucking nonsense based on nothing but GREED.

(January 17, 2018 at 7:14 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 16, 2018 at 7:37 pm)Haipule Wrote: Your an interesting person Brian37! Your sense of humor is outrageous, even for me! People survive here, in Hawai'i well because of Ohana which means family. It is not unusual to see a multi-addition house with 6 mail boxes.

However, you cannot tax the rich because they have the means to leave. Boeing was always a big employer in Washington State. That is until they tried to tax them further. Then they moved to Chicago where they were given a tax break for just providing necessary jobs.

In California they tried to increase corporate taxes only to have the business and the jobs go next door to Nevada where there is no corporate tax. That was quite a boom for Nevada!

And if America wants to get rid of there rich, all they have to do is try and tax them unreasonably. There are places in the world BEGGING us to move there such as the Kingdom of Vanuatu. Does it really matter, in this computer-cell phone world were we choose to live?

I was amongst the richest on Maui and do you want to know what they brag about? How poor they are? Why? Taxes! Do you understand that I can pay a lawyer $10.000 dollars and that lawyer will structure me so I can qualify for Medicare?

You CANNOT fix the world, or this country, by overburdening rich people with taxes. They will just say FUCK YOU and leave! And they have the means to do so!

I don't find this funny at all. And no, who the hell is claiming I can fix the world? I do have a voice and if I can help make the country less lopsided I will use my voice.

No shit family lives together, that is fine, but not every body does. 

"You cant tax the rich otherwise they will leave".


BULLSHIT, we have in our tax code history had far higher tax rates. This blackmail, nothing more. If you expect me to feel sorry for billionaires you are a fool. There is a huge difference between "can't" and "don't want to". The rich CAN afford higher taxes, that is fucking nonsense based on nothing but GREED.

Agreed they won't leave . They never have prior they won't now it's a bluff . They realize even if they won't admit it that living in a first world country is better. Even if they refuse to contribute to it staying that way and prefer the "I got mine fuck everyone else mentality ) Which is ultimately in the broad and long term self destructive to society . And lowers there own prosperity .