It's also important to remember that men are not simply "better in certain sports". Men completely dominate the vast majority of sports records. I can't even think of a single one where women are better, though I'm sure there are probably a couple. Anyway, this is a much bigger difference than the difference between black people vs white people. I mean, it's not even close. Comparing the difference between race and sex when it comes to sports is either disingenuous or just plain ignorant.

(March 4, 2018 at 12:11 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(March 4, 2018 at 7:43 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Should we stop African American men playing basket ball with Caucasian men because the African americans seem to have an overwhelming advantage?

Discuss.

I was thinking about this in the sense that it's interesting to think why any sports are segregated in anyway.

 but it's not a done thing to segregate height in basketball, 

Do you also wonder why they're also bouncing the ball all the time, when it'd be quicker just to hold it and run up and down the court?

(March 4, 2018 at 1:33 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: It's also important to remember that men are not simply "better in certain sports". Men completely dominate the vast majority of sports records. I can't even think of a single one where women are better, though I'm sure there are probably a couple. Anyway, this is a much bigger difference than the difference between black people vs white people. I mean, it's not even close. Comparing the difference between race and sex when it comes to sports is either disingenuous or just plain ignorant.

Or...racist. Can't see why else downbeat and lutrinae would push such stereotypes.

(March 4, 2018 at 1:33 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: It's also important to remember that men are not simply "better in certain sports". Men completely dominate the vast majority of sports records. I can't even think of a single one where women are better, though I'm sure there are probably a couple. Anyway, this is a much bigger difference than the difference between black people vs white people. I mean, it's not even close. Comparing the difference between race and sex when it comes to sports is either disingenuous or just plain ignorant.

Argh
trans woman =/= man dressing up as woman

(March 4, 2018 at 3:16 pm)pool the matey Wrote:

(March 4, 2018 at 1:33 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: It's also important to remember that men are not simply "better in certain sports". Men completely dominate the vast majority of sports records. I can't even think of a single one where women are better, though I'm sure there are probably a couple. Anyway, this is a much bigger difference than the difference between black people vs white people. I mean, it's not even close. Comparing the difference between race and sex when it comes to sports is either disingenuous or just plain ignorant.

Argh
trans woman =/= man dressing up as woman

A trans woman is physiologically part male, something we can't change, so you have to consider male physiology and the advantage it provides.

(March 4, 2018 at 3:16 pm)pool the matey Wrote:

(March 4, 2018 at 1:33 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: It's also important to remember that men are not simply "better in certain sports". Men completely dominate the vast majority of sports records. I can't even think of a single one where women are better, though I'm sure there are probably a couple. Anyway, this is a much bigger difference than the difference between black people vs white people. I mean, it's not even close. Comparing the difference between race and sex when it comes to sports is either disingenuous or just plain ignorant.

Argh
trans woman =/= man dressing up as woman

Did I say that? No I did not. 

What you say is true, but sports isn't about wearing dresses or about gender identity. Sports is a physical competition that usually involves a lot of strength and speed. And like it or not transwomen are still biologically male and therefore still posses a male advantage over other women. And in the realm of physical competition (not dresses!), that matters.

Anyway, this has been explained and broken down a million times already in this thread, and all you have to come back with is "transwomen are not men in dresses." Just goes to show this whole discussion is a huge joke and just a bunch of people being purposely obtuse.

(March 4, 2018 at 3:38 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: What you say is true, but sports isn't about wearing dresses or about gender identity. Sports is a physical competition that usually involves a lot of strength and speed. And like it or not transwomen are still biologically male and therefore still posses a male advantage over other women. And in the realm of physical competition (not dresses!), that matters.

This 1000000x. It has literally nothing to do with gender identity. Like, in track, the men's and women's races are run the same in every facet, except when they're compensating for a physiological difference between men and women (like implements and courses having different heights, weights, or distances). It's not like women wear freaking skirts while doing shot put, or the men's javelins are more masculine. Lol. It's purely physiological.

(March 4, 2018 at 1:33 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: It's also important to remember that men are not simply "better in certain sports". Men completely dominate the vast majority of sports records.

But the thread title is incorrect. This isn't actually a man named Tiffany dominating women's sports. It's a woman named tiffany dominating women's sports. And since she isn't cheating, it is silly to complain about a woman winning women's sports.

Quote:Comparing the difference between race and sex when it comes to sports is either disingenuous or just plain ignorant.

The point is there are differences in both cases but you don't therefore divide things up between races. And you don't divide things up between cis men and cis women either. This isn't about leaving out trans people. It's a women's category, not a ciswomen's category. If transwomen were booted out of the women's category depsite being women where are they supposed to go? They're not men.

A man named Tiffany isn't dominating women's volleyball in Brazil. /thread

(March 4, 2018 at 9:37 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(March 4, 2018 at 7:43 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Should we stop African American men playing basket ball with Caucasian men because the African americans seem to have an overwhelming advantage?

Discuss.

No. Sports are devided up by sex, not race.

Do you think men and women should compete together because blacks and whites compete together?

If your answer is no, then you agree that sex plays a major role in someone's performance in sports.

Why not?

why shouldn't women compete directly with men?

(March 4, 2018 at 3:47 pm)shadow Wrote:

(March 4, 2018 at 3:38 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: What you say is true, but sports isn't about wearing dresses or about gender identity. Sports is a physical competition that usually involves a lot of strength and speed. And like it or not transwomen are still biologically male and therefore still posses a male advantage over other women. And in the realm of physical competition (not dresses!), that matters.

This 1000000x. It has literally nothing to do with gender identity. Like, in track, the men's and women's races are run the same in every facet, except when they're compensating for a physiological difference between men and women (like implements and courses having different heights, weights, or distances). It's not like women wear freaking skirts while doing shot put, or the men's javelins are more masculine. Lol. It's purely physiological.

And gender identity isn't about gender roles. You can be a masculine transwoman who doesn't like dresses and you're no less of a woman than a masculine ciswoman the only difference is you were born with a biologically male body. It's has absolutely nothing to do with acting womanly. A transwoman can play sports for the same reason a ciswoman can play sports. It's just a woman. Cis/trans is no more relevant than white/black. And THAT'S why it's bigoted to act as if it is. When you look at another human being you shouldn't care about whether they are cis or trans any more than you should care about the color of their skin. Certain races don't completely dominate certain sports categories... but if they did it wouldn't matter and they wouldn't be excluded and THAT'S the point.

---

(March 4, 2018 at 3:34 pm)shadow Wrote: A trans woman is physiologically part male, something we can't change

So what? Being tall makes a person better at basketball but you don't ban overly tall basketball players. Genetic advantages don't matter. It isn't cheating. Drugs is cheating. Genetics isn't cheating. (After all, all talent and skill is ultimately genetic). This is a women's category and transwomen are women. The fact that transwomen may have a genetic advantage is no more relevant than the fact taller basketball players have an advantage. They're not men they're women and that's why they get to play with other women.

You say that you do running and if a bunch of transwomen were allowed to compete along with you a bunch of you would be mad... well my point is that you'd be wrong to be mad.