Beta's dumb argument mocked in cartoon form 

(March 14, 2018 at 3:19 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(March 14, 2018 at 2:51 pm)alpha male Wrote: Afraid of hell...which you go to for sinning. So, yeah, they're trying not to believe so they can sin comfortably.

I've never had to try not to believe -- it came naturally.  I tried to believe, and failed.  My brain just doesn't work that way.

I'm in the same boat.  I remember wondering how adults could believe in The Flood very early on, not to mention The Parting of the Red Sea  and Joshua and  Walls of Jericho.   That was before I knew anything about sin or the threat of hell.   Neither my parents nor any church I attended put much emphasis on hell.  Salvation in the form of everlasting life was what they talked about.  And since they were evangelical, it was belief that was the key to salvation.   

The idea that not believing was way to sin for free never occurred to me.  Christians on this forum introduced me to that possibility.  And now that you mention it, it is a get out of jail free pass for a certain type of sin, those which only injure god such as: not keeping the Sabbath, not believing in god (rather redundant but there it is), and, taking the Lord's name in vain.  That's three of the ten comandments gone guilt free.

Interestingly, I think some theists use religion to justify things I consider wrong doing:  shunning people, particularly children for thier beliefs; discriminating against and committing violence against others based on  gender, sexual orientation, religion, religious background, ethnicity, or, legitimacy; taxing people for a preisthood; attempting to convert young children against their parents wishes.

(March 14, 2018 at 3:40 pm)Divinity Wrote: Afraid of hell for not believing, actually. 

No, not at all. Read James.

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(March 14, 2018 at 3:47 pm)Whateverist Wrote: My bad.  I thought you were answering my question about biblical support for reading the bible literally which immediately preceded your post.

Yes, that's why I clarified. Not sure why you have a problem with that.

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(March 14, 2018 at 3:18 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Alpha, have you considered being a Christian who isn't a YEC?

Better than that - I was a Christian who wasn't a YEC when I started.

Quote:1) The 6,000 year-old universe is not central to Christianity. This model is pushed by people who want to see their iteration of Christianity have power in America.

Don't know whether to laugh or cry over that one. Get a grip dude.

Quote:2) A literal interpretation of Genesis contradicts itself: the day by day ordering of creation is different in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. Since the 6,000 year old model relies on a literal interpretation of the book, this model is wrong right out of the gate because a literal interpretation contradicts itself.

Accounts from two different points of view can seem contradictory, but reconcile when considered more carefully.

Quote:3) You could even take Genesis literally if you take into account what is written elsewhere in the Bible: Psalm 90 (written by Moses) says: "A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by" (Psalm 90:4). Taking into account that one of God's days is an indeterminate amount of time, maybe Genesis spoke of things in terms of God's days. Also, some suggest that there is an indeterminate amount of time between Genesis 1:1 and the rest of the days of creation (perhaps 13 billion years?).

Ah, so in your view a thousand years literally means an indeterminate amount of time.

See the points I made to RR re: very good and sin entering into the world. Christianity really doesn't fit with evolution. I've done the whole tohu bohu analysis in the past but I don't think it works.

Quote:4) Christians often say that the essential part of Christianity is accepting Christ as one's savior.

Yep, that's why you don't see me and RR condemning each other on this point.

Quote:Then once you have done that, I read that Jesus gives a bunch of commandments about being a righteous person (ie treating others, including the outcast and downtrodden, with respect and dignity, enduring hardships with faith, not judging others, and forgiving them their tresspasses. It doesn't say anything about resisting discoveries in science. That seems to be something Christians do when they are interested in worldly power.

More of the power stuff? You're bat-shit crazy.

Quote:I want to reiterate. Being a YEC has nothing to do with being a Christian.

Like I care what an atheist says about Christianity.  

Quote:Why don't you consider looking in to the science yourself? A bunch of atheists could sit here and tell you you're wrong, and you would feel like promoting YEC-ism is defending Christianity. But it's not. Look into the science yourself, man. Please.

I have to the extent that I can understand it, and I can understand it better than most people. Back in the day I took 3 semesters of college calc and differential equations, and 3 semesters of physics. I've been debating this stuff, and researching as much as is possible on the internet, for 20 years. Sorry, but models that needs to invent 95% stuff we can't see...universe that exists in a singularity but then inflates because???...inanimate matter coming to life...these don't impress me. If the oscillating universe bit had worked out you'd be in a better position, but it didn't.

Quote:By the way, your argument that you are doing okay in your life, therefore there is no reason to change your views is invalid. If a flat earther is living a good, comfortable life, does that mean the earth is flat? No. You could be wrong no matter how well or terribly your life is going. Get real.

Sure, I could be wrong, but...so what? If you need to feel that you're right about everything ion order to be happy, you've got a problem. Chill out.

(March 14, 2018 at 5:25 pm)alpha male Wrote: More of the power stuff? You're bat-shit crazy.

Yeah, that was a bit too much. It's not like there is any kind of relation between religion and power. There isn't an evangelical voter bloc. Nobody is out there saying: "Don't change our marriage laws or God will take vengeance in the form of weather patterns." No congressman ever said, "There's no need to worry about global warming because God promised Noah he wouldn't flood the earth again." Nobody has ever been burned at the stake over a fairytale or anything. None of that is true, right? Because if it were true, that would be batshit crazy, right? Good thing none of that's true.

Quote:Sure, I could be wrong, but...so what? If you need to feel that you're right about everything ion order to be happy, you've got a problem. Chill out.

I see two extremes here.

Being so concerned that one is correct that one can't be happy otherwise, and (at the other extreme) not caring if one is correct, so long as one is happy. I endorse neither. I say, be happy first. Then, from the comfort of a happy and leisurely life, take a little time to examine your own views for correctness.

Quote:More of the power stuff? You're bat-shit crazy.

Lol Beta is trying argue the evangelical Christians are not politically powerful   

Now that's hilarious 

Quote:Sure, I could be wrong,

That would first imply you have any reason to think your right 

Quote:but...so what?

Well there you have it . Beta is happy believing a lie . And does not care if his idea's are rational 

Quote: If you need to feel that you're right about everything ion order to be happy, you've got a problem.

Their you have it Beta living a lie can make you happy . And that trying to be as correct in ones thinking as possible is a problem . And curiosity and wanting to examinene your idea's can only lead to unhappiness . Cult think at it's finest . 

Quote: Chill out.

Yeah quite all that reasoning and basing your acceptance on evidence . Be like Beta and except the first feel good cult doctrine your feed . Because fuck understanding things .

(March 14, 2018 at 5:25 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(March 14, 2018 at 3:47 pm)Whateverist Wrote: My bad.  I thought you were answering my question about biblical support for reading the bible literally which immediately preceded your post.

Yes, that's why I clarified. Not sure why you have a problem with that.

Have a problem with you providing support for a literal reading by demonstrating how it can be read literally? It just isn't responsive to my question. Can you see that?

Quote:And most will get there. God generally doesn't fight them forever.

Which goes to show what a pathetic concept of  god you follow

Young Earth Creationism Debunked in exactly 10 words:

There's mountains of evidence against it, and zero for it.

"But God Made the Earth Mature!"

Conjecture. Nowhere in the bible does it state this. And there's certainly no evidence for it. So it's pure bullshit plain and simple. You can bring up Adam being made mature all you want--never does the bible state God made the Earth "Mature".

God couldn't even make creatards mature.

He's such a fuck up!

(March 13, 2018 at 7:55 am)Little Rik Wrote: I guess that religious dogmas are as bad as atheists dogmas.
The two are located at the two extreme yet one extreme think that he is correct while the other is wrong.  

Not worth talk about it.  

Translation :
I have no reasonable argument to refute any of this, so rather than talking about it, let's move on.