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RE: Creationist "Kind" - A Classification with No Definition
March 18, 2018 at 5:01 pm
(March 18, 2018 at 7:46 am)Khemikal Wrote: Should've just taken the kinds survey, Hugs. In any case, if you posit that things evolve "after their own kind" then kind is not synonymous with species after all. For example, earlier, you mentioned cats. Let;s call that "cat-kind". All cats evolved after their own "cat-kind".
Well, you're talking felidae,..then. "Cat-kind" is a family, not a species. Now, I bet we'd have seen that, simply, when you answered "cat-kind" to tigers and housecats..right? Or "dog kind" to wolves and beagles. Or "ape-kind" to man and orangutans.
The bible clearly defines a 'kind' as that which is able to produce fertile offspring, every "seed" must bring forth after it's "kind".
Modern biological definition of species is the same, but they consider geography (these animals don't meet in the wild and therefore don't mate and produce offspring) and physical limitations (a tiger and houscat).
Now if you can artificially inseminate a house cat / Tiger and it produces fertile offspring then according to the biblical definition, they are of the same "species".
Dogs and wolves CAN produce fertile offspring, and therefore are the same "species" biblically.
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RE: Creationist "Kind" - A Classification with No Definition
March 18, 2018 at 5:05 pm
Consider the Cichlids.
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RE: Creationist "Kind" - A Classification with No Definition
March 18, 2018 at 5:57 pm
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2018 at 6:00 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(March 18, 2018 at 5:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: The bible clearly defines a 'kind' as that which is able to produce fertile offspring, every "seed" must bring forth after it's "kind".
Modern biological definition of species is the same, but they consider geography (these animals don't meet in the wild and therefore don't mate and produce offspring) and physical limitations (a tiger and houscat).
Now if you can artificially inseminate a house cat / Tiger and it produces fertile offspring then according to the biblical definition, they are of the same "species".
Dogs and wolves CAN produce fertile offspring, and therefore are the same "species" biblically. You must mean same "kind" biblically. Species isn't in the babble, and doesn't need airquotes. Nevertheless, you're talking about groups of animals being the same kind but not the same species, so it doesn;t look like kinds are synonymous with species at all. Hell, the cats aren't just different species in a family they're different genera.
Just take the survey, lol.
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RE: Creationist "Kind" - A Classification with No Definition
March 18, 2018 at 6:33 pm
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2018 at 6:52 pm by Amarok.)
Quote:Now if you can artificially inseminate a house cat / Tiger and it produces fertile offspring then according to the biblical definition, they are of the same "species".
No they won't Huggie they are not the same . Tigers are Panthera while House cats are Felis . Thus they can't breed. The only reason tigers and lions can breed is because their both Panthera.And the only reason dogs wolves and coyotes can breed is because there all Canis . Taxonomy is way more complicated then this moron is presenting .
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RE: Creationist "Kind" - A Classification with No Definition
March 18, 2018 at 6:41 pm
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2018 at 6:49 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(March 18, 2018 at 5:57 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (March 18, 2018 at 5:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: The bible clearly defines a 'kind' as that which is able to produce fertile offspring, every "seed" must bring forth after it's "kind".
Modern biological definition of species is the same, but they consider geography (these animals don't meet in the wild and therefore don't mate and produce offspring) and physical limitations (a tiger and houscat).
Now if you can artificially inseminate a house cat / Tiger and it produces fertile offspring then according to the biblical definition, they are of the same "species".
Dogs and wolves CAN produce fertile offspring, and therefore are the same "species" biblically. You must mean same "kind" biblically. Species isn't in the babble, and doesn't need airquotes. Nevertheless, you're talking about groups of animals being the same kind but not the same species, so it doesn;t look like kinds are synonymous with species at all. Hell, the cats aren't just different species in a family they're different genera.
Just take the survey, lol. *emphasis mine*
Once again, you're not arguing with me, you're arguing with the dictionary; but what do I know, you're the best debater of the forums 
No matter how much mental gymnastics you apply, 'species' and 'kind' are synonymous, no if and or buts.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/species
Quote:species
1 a : kind, sort
Quote:species Synonyms
Synonyms
bracket, category, class, classification, division, family, genus, grade, group, kind, league, order, rank(s), rubric, set, tier, type
(March 18, 2018 at 6:33 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Ah now huggies resorting to the breeding argument . Really huggie a house cat and a lion can breed . So this has been done right and viable fertile offspring came from said union . Tigers and Lions can produce offspring but their not fertile so are the different kind/ species? So once again just hijacking real science and imposing his book of magic on it . species
http://www.ligerworld.com/are-the-ligers-sterile.html
Quote:Female Ligers are not Sterile, but rather they are highly fertile. A Female Liger can reproduce with both lion and tigers. There have been a lot of examples from female ligers, in which a Li-Liger is produced and also a Ti-Liger is produced. Therefore, female Ligers are not sterile at all. It is a very wrong notion to association sterility with Ligers.
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RE: Creationist "Kind" - A Classification with No Definition
March 18, 2018 at 6:52 pm
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2018 at 6:55 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I don't care what you call a "kind" - I'm merely noticing that it encompasses three different classifications thusfar and that;s just between cats and dogs..apparently. Species, genus, and family.
I wonder whether man is apekind or orangutans are mankind?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Creationist "Kind" - A Classification with No Definition
March 18, 2018 at 6:53 pm
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2018 at 7:15 pm by Amarok.)
(March 18, 2018 at 6:41 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: (March 18, 2018 at 5:57 pm)Khemikal Wrote: You must mean same "kind" biblically. Species isn't in the babble, and doesn't need airquotes. Nevertheless, you're talking about groups of animals being the same kind but not the same species, so it doesn;t look like kinds are synonymous with species at all. Hell, the cats aren't just different species in a family they're different genera.
Just take the survey, lol. *emphasis mine*
Once again, you're not arguing with me, you're arguing with the dictionary; but what do I know, you're the best debater of the forums
No matter how much mental gymnastics you apply, 'species' and 'kind' are synonymous, no if and or buts.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/species
Quote:species
1 a : kind, sort
Quote:species Synonyms
Synonyms
bracket, category, class, classification, division, family, genus, grade, group, kind, league, order, rank(s), rubric, set, tier, type
(March 18, 2018 at 6:33 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Ah now huggies resorting to the breeding argument . Really huggie a house cat and a lion can breed . So this has been done right and viable fertile offspring came from said union . Tigers and Lions can produce offspring but their not fertile so are the different kind/ species? So once again just hijacking real science and imposing his book of magic on it . species
http://www.ligerworld.com/are-the-ligers-sterile.html
Quote:Female Ligers are not Sterile, but rather they are highly fertile. A Female Liger can reproduce with both lion and tigers. There have been a lot of examples from female ligers, in which a Li-Liger is produced and also a Ti-Liger is produced. Therefore, female Ligers are not sterile at all. It is a very wrong notion to association sterility with Ligers.
And you missed my point entirely
Big surprise
And once again turning to common usage .
also love how he ignored the rest of the post .
![[Image: 550px-Taxonomic_Rank_Graph.svg.png]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Taxonomic_Rank_Graph.svg/550px-Taxonomic_Rank_Graph.svg.png)
![[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0w4uhc0ZbMILLn46ZRtY...CLtXocjQLR]](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0w4uhc0ZbMILLn46ZRtYuSR7kRERmBbGeiUCZktCLtXocjQLR)
Calling a Genus , Class, Order, and Family subcategories of species is dumb . And the rest of definitions is just you imposing none biology terms into the mix allowing you to stretch the term as broad as you like .Once again simply putting up dictionary definitions has failed you .Kind is not biological classification .
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RE: Creationist "Kind" - A Classification with No Definition
March 18, 2018 at 7:22 pm
(March 16, 2018 at 5:19 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: "Kind" is very much defined, it's synonymous with sort or species.
What do you imagine specie and sort to mean?
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RE: Creationist "Kind" - A Classification with No Definition
March 18, 2018 at 7:24 pm
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2018 at 7:41 pm by Amarok.)
(March 18, 2018 at 7:22 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: (March 16, 2018 at 5:19 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: "Kind" is very much defined, it's synonymous with sort or species.
What do you imagine specie and sort to mean?
Apparently the broadest definition ever . Including stuff in biology that ranked above Species.
Then of course is the question are black and grey crows the same kind .
https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com...two-crows/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...rbreeding/
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RE: Creationist "Kind" - A Classification with No Definition
March 18, 2018 at 8:04 pm
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2018 at 8:17 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(March 18, 2018 at 7:24 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: (March 18, 2018 at 7:22 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: What do you imagine specie and sort to mean?
Apparently the broadest definition ever . Including stuff in biology that ranked above Species.
Then of course is the question are black and grey crows the same kind .
https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com...two-crows/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...rbreeding/
Huggy believes the Bible to be true by definition, and any words that appear to him to imply the truth of the Bible must itself also be true. For him the work of the lord is but to make even more words appear to himself to imply the Bible to be true. When he has gone through the trouble of making more words appear to himself to imply the Bible to have been true, he is offended that such appearance is not discerned at all by others who, one would imagine, are through training and habit be better at discerning things than he. So he speak in a didactic tone and post in enlarged font as if what appears to him to be true is actually something to be inculcated as vindicating favor to those others.
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