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RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 2, 2018 at 12:13 pm
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2018 at 12:15 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(April 2, 2018 at 11:51 am)Antares Wrote: I can't think of more than a few married couples that I know that have stayed together and remained faithful for more than 20 years. Its not so much natural as it is a cultural norm. Albeit, a fading one.
If everyone were capable of living long enough all marriages would fail eventually. Unlike with swans!
(April 2, 2018 at 12:10 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Natural? it isn't natural to wear clothes or to live in buildings. For those inclined to monogamy, that is a good thing. For those inclined to polyamory, that is a good thing.
Great response.
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RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 2, 2018 at 12:18 pm
Seems like a few terms need definitions here. What is monogamy - one partner for life, or one partner at a time?
What does "natural"/"unnatural" distinction mean, if we're talking about conscious beings? Are cultural norms and conscious decisions natural, or not? What about base instincts and our biology - are they a part of our nature?
Is "natural" supposed to be equated with "good", "right", or "correct"? If so - why?
Seems to me, that all sorts of mutually opposing behaviors and ideas can be considered "natural", when we're talking about a species, that naturally evolved enough intelligence to consciously and deliberately control at least some of its impulses.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 2, 2018 at 12:24 pm
(April 2, 2018 at 11:20 am)Hammy Wrote: I think both monogamy and polygamy are natural for humans. But I definitely think they're more monogamous than most animals. I knew someone was going to say this. Of course it is natural for some because it happens. That is not the essence of the question, imo.
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RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 2, 2018 at 12:25 pm
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2018 at 12:27 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
That's the trouble, though. It seems as if the essence of the question isn't entirely obvious in the language used to ask it. I think that monogamy is as natural a state as any other (conceptually) competing state. My thinking that to be so..however, isn;t a comment on whether or not it can;t go south or if marriage is "good".
To the latter, I think it can be, but it can be a miserable prison just the same.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 2, 2018 at 12:25 pm
(April 2, 2018 at 12:10 pm)polymath257 Wrote: [...]Natural? it isn't natural to wear clothes or to live in buildings. [...]
Isn't it, though? If you're a member of a species, that doesn't have good protection from weather, in the form of fur, or fat, but does have a natural ability to solve those problems by creating such protection - what would be considered a "natural" behavior in a situation, when you have to migrate into less favorable climate, than the one you've evolved in?
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 2, 2018 at 12:31 pm
It doesn't appear to be natural for birds either. Genetic testing reveals so called monogomous pairs cheat. httpslif://www.birdwatchersdigest.com/bwdsite/solve/faqs/do-birds-mate-for-e.php http://animals.mom.me/birds-monogamous-4226.html
And most birds are only socially monogamous for a single season.
For me living and sharing my life with just one person is pretty natural. Not cheating sexually occasionally requires effort. But not often.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 2, 2018 at 12:31 pm
Last year, I got married, and I'd say that long term monogamy from a biological standpoint, might not seem natural, because there are always temptations. I think especially in our culture where so much is coming at us on social media, etc it can be hard to avoid those things that may tempt us. But, monogamy is a choice, and if you do take vows with someone to stay faithful to them, then it's only right to stay true to those vows. If someone cannot be faithful, he/she should at least share that with their spouse/partner, and end the relationship to explore others. Cheating is never an option, because you're robbing the other person of being in a relationship where they are under the assumption that they're with a faithful partner.
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RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 2, 2018 at 12:34 pm
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2018 at 12:35 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(April 2, 2018 at 12:31 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Not cheating sexually occasionally requires effort. But not often.
I think I;d have to try pretty damned hard to cheat. It seems like alot of work, to me. I;ve got a buddy, great guy..did real nice by his wife and his kids..but, you know..not remotely monogamous. Everytime he tells me about it all I can think of is how exhausting it must be.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 2, 2018 at 12:36 pm
(April 2, 2018 at 12:34 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (April 2, 2018 at 12:31 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Not cheating sexually occasionally requires effort. But not often.
I think I;d have to try pretty damned hard to cheat. It seems like alot of work, to me. I;ve got a buddy, great guy..did real nice by his wife and his kids..but, you know..not remotely monogamous. Everytime he tells me about it all I can think of is how exhausting it must be.
He's not really a ''great guy'' if he's deceiving his wife, because that's what cheating is. 
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RE: Is long term monogamy unnatural for human beings?
April 2, 2018 at 12:37 pm
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2018 at 12:38 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
It's not exactly a secret, Deidre, lol. Theirs was one of those marriages that eventually became a prison..not because it had to, but because it didn't conform to either of their expectations.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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