(May 11, 2018 at 6:39 pm)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 6:16 pm)pocaracas Wrote: I'm going to use this.
Let's say there is some sort of creator of the Universe.
Could that creator not have created the Universe in such a way that all the biological machinery would eventually, in time, develop and become just as we see it today?
Could this all not be a product of evolution, planned by the creator?
Or are you of the opinion that the creator is incompetent and his initial act of creation needed some extra tweaking afterwards?

I believe in some micro-evolution used as part of the implementation of the design but that is all.  I don't believe there is macro-evolution or a change of kinds.

For starters, there is no such thing as micro or macro evolution, there is only evolution.

Even if there were such things, if you accept "micro evolution" then you accept evolution in its entirety since "macro evolution" is lots of "micro evolution" adding up.

Further, speciation has been observed in the wild and in the lab. Check out ring species.

"Kinds" is a term invented by god-botherers out of whole cloth for no reason other than to excuse the nonsense in the holey babble.

(May 11, 2018 at 7:09 pm)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 7:08 pm)Mathilda Wrote: How do you know that there is a mechanism then?

Because evidence supports this.

What evidence?

Gotta love old earth creationists, they compromise both faith and science.The ultimate wishy washy fence sitters.

(May 11, 2018 at 6:44 pm)CDF47 Wrote: I just hope people on here can see through your cheap debate tricks and bad arguments and spin.  From ridicule to straw man arguments, I have seen nothing of much reason whatsoever.  There were some attempts at providing some information backed by sources which is good but mostly just baseless claims and weak arguments on the atheist side of this discussion.

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(May 11, 2018 at 6:41 pm)pocaracas Wrote: So you're saying that your creator god is an incompetent one that couldn't create everything just right, huh?
Interesting...
Or are you a Young Earth Creationist? Where that god created things as they are nowadays?

Do to the fall, things are not perfect.  That is pretty clear in Scripture.

I am an Old Earth Creationist and believe in the Day-Age Interpretation of Genesis.

Do you observe the 613 commandments?

Do you believe in talking snakes? Talking donkeys? Unicorns? Dragons? Incest?  Slavery? Genocide? They are all endorsed by your god.

(May 11, 2018 at 7:14 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 6:44 pm)CDF47 Wrote: I just hope people on here can see through your cheap debate tricks and bad arguments and spin.  From ridicule to straw man arguments, I have seen nothing of much reason whatsoever.  There were some attempts at providing some information backed by sources which is good but mostly just baseless claims and weak arguments on the atheist side of this discussion.

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Do to the fall, things are not perfect.  That is pretty clear in Scripture.

I am an Old Earth Creationist and believe in the Day-Age Interpretation of Genesis.

Do you observe the 613 commandments?

Do you believe in talking snakes? Talking donkeys? Unicorns? Dragons? Incest?  Slavery? Genocide? They are all endorsed by your god.

The 613 commands were for the Jews of the OT.  We are under grace in the NT. Dragons, beasts,..., are used symbolically in the Bible.

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It is so nice to know that only 3 percent of Americans fall for this atheism belief. The belief that everything comes from nothing (no Creator) which is obviously impossible.

(May 11, 2018 at 7:18 pm)CDF47 Wrote: The 613 commands were for the Jews of the OT.

So can we safely ignore them now ?

Quote:We are under grace in the NT.

Phew that law thing really got people killed, now Christians were free to go and spread that grace, and not be exactly like other religions and not kill anyone. or have slaves..or.. or.. .. ohh wait...

Quote:Dragons, beasts,..., are used symbolically in the Bible.

Of course they don't really exist, so why use them in the first place ?

Quote:It is so nice to know that only 3 percent of Americans fall for this atheism belief.

Belief ?

Quote:The belief that everything comes from nothing

Really now you are simply being dishonest.

Quote:(no Creator) which is obviously impossible.

Bring us the tiniest piece of evidence perhaps, then we will consider it

(May 11, 2018 at 7:27 pm)possibletarian Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 7:18 pm)CDF47 Wrote: The 613 commands were for the Jews of the OT.

So can we safely ignore them now ?

Quote:We are under grace in the NT.

Phew that law thing really got people killed, now Christians were free to go and spread that grace, and not be exactly like other religions and not kill anyone. or have slaves..or.. or.. .. ohh wait...

Quote:Dragons, beasts,..., are used symbolically in the Bible.

Of course they don't really exist, so why use them in the first place ?

Quote:It is so nice to know that only 3 percent of Americans fall for this atheism belief.

Belief ?

Quote:The belief that everything comes from nothing

Really now you are simply being dishonest.

Quote:(no Creator) which is obviously impossible.

Bring us the tiniest piece of evidence perhaps, then we will consider it

The symbols are used for prophecy in the Bible.  The prophecies are at times highly symbolic.

(May 11, 2018 at 6:50 pm)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 6:47 pm)Mathilda Wrote: So what stops micro-changes from accumulating?

I've asked this several times now and not one single attempt at an answer.

Evolution.  It's not designed to change kinds.

so when does it stop, at what stage

(May 11, 2018 at 7:33 pm)possibletarian Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 6:50 pm)CDF47 Wrote: Evolution.  It's not designed to change kinds.

so when does it stop, at what stage

Prior to a change of kind.

(May 11, 2018 at 7:39 pm)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 7:33 pm)possibletarian Wrote: so when does it stop, at what stage

Prior to a change of kind.

So at that point does it stop changing or adapting any more ? and micro changes no longer take place.
Also what exactly is a 'kind' ?