(May 13, 2018 at 12:00 am)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:Regardless, it takes a lot of faith to be an atheist

No it doesn't 

Quote: and to believe everything comes from undirected blind and dumb processes.

That is not atheism . As i said atheism isn't a belief. And even if an atheist made that statement it still would not require faith to reject theism claim  everything comes from directed blind and magic processes.

---

Quote:Because there is highly sophisticated functional information inside of DNA.  It operates as a code for molecular machines to perform complex functions at a nano scale.  The complexity and specificity is mind boggling.  Watch the videos on how DNA, amino acids, and proteins/molecular machines operate.  The proteins literally are molecular machines.  They are not "like" machines, they are machines.  Understanding all of this is proof positive that a guiding hand was involved in the creation of living systems.

Credulity credulity credulity credulity . Unfounded conclusion .

---

Quote:The same can be said of the atheists in this thread

Nope

It is the atheist that believe in magical blind undirect processes created everything.

(May 13, 2018 at 12:03 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 13, 2018 at 12:00 am)Tizheruk Wrote: No it doesn't 



That is not atheism . As i said atheism isn't a belief. And even if an atheist made that statement it still would not require faith to reject theism claim  everything comes from directed blind and magic processes.

---

Credulity credulity credulity credulity . Unfounded conclusion .

---

Nope

It is the atheist that believe in magical blind undirect processes created everything.

Repeat after me.   It is not magical.  It is not undirected.   It is directed by laws of chemistry and physics and thermodynamics.

Theists believe there is a magical entity that directs everything.  The entity can remain unobserved.  Its means of affecting reality can remain unobserved.  It’s origin, existence, reasons for action, capacity, origin of capacity, and mode of operation needs no explanation much less confirmation.  A simple unsubstantiated “it can do anything” is sufficient to dispel all doubts in such minds as are drawn to stories of such type of entity.  Most importantly that model of reality need not be called upon to produce any unique and testable predictions to be tested against things not yet observed to demonstrate it actually is analogous to reality in any discernible way.  But yet it must be accepted as totally true, or else hyperbolic threats of ever lasting torment are issued against the hypothetical eternal soul of the doubters.

Real scientists believe demonstrable laws of physics, chemistry and thermal dynamics acting in observed ways over long time, through deductible mechanism that are extensions and repetitions of observed mechanism, can explain the specifics of how life on earth came to be as we observe them, and how stars, planets and other aspects of reality can come to be as we observe them.  Most importantly each possible model of reality developed with this approach is called upon to produce unique and testable predictions of aspects of nature within its scope but which have not yet been directly observed in order to demonstrate the model actually contain real analogies to how reality works, or else it is dismissed as baseless.  Even when a model passed these rather difficult tests it is still accepted that the model may have gotten lucky and the possibility it is in fact wrong, no matter how unlikely observation has made that possibility, can never be fully excluded.

The latter is science.  

Attempting to pass the former off in the age of science as a respectable position by stealing the reputation of the latter had built through 300 years of track record of validated predictions,  that is intelligent design.

(May 13, 2018 at 12:18 am)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(May 13, 2018 at 12:03 am)CDF47 Wrote: It is the atheist that believe in magical blind undirect processes created everything.

Repeat after me.   It is not magical.  It is not undirected.   It is directed by laws of chemistry and physics and thermodynamics.

Theists believe there is a magical entity that directs everything.  The entity can remain unobserved.  Its means of affecting reality can remain unobserved.  It’s origin, existence, reasons for action, capacity, origin of capacity, and mode of operation needs no explanation much less confirmation.  A simple unsubstantiated “it can do anything” is sufficient to dispel all doubts in such minds as are drawn to stories of such type of entity.  Most importantly that model of reality need not be called upon to produce any unique and testable predictions to be tested against things not yet observed to demonstrate it actually is analogous to reality in any discernible way.  But yet it must be accepted as totally true, or else hyperbolic threats of ever lasting torment are issued against the hypothetical eternal soul of the doubters.

Real scientists believe demonstrable laws of physics, chemistry and thermal dynamics acting in observed ways over long time, through deductible mechanism that are extensions and repetitions of observed mechanism, can explain the specifics of how life on earth came to be as we observe them, and how stars, planets and other aspects of reality can come to be as we observe them.  Most importantly each possible model of reality developed with this approach is called upon to produce unique and testable predictions of aspects of nature within its scope but which have not yet been directly observed in order to demonstrate the model actually contain real analogies to how reality works, or else it is dismissed as baseless.  Even when a model passed these rather difficult tests it is still accepted that the model may have gotten lucky and the possibility it is in fact wrong, no matter how unlikely observation has made that possibility, can never be fully excluded.

The latter is science.  

Attempting to pass the former off in the age of science as a respectable position by stealing the reputation of the latter had built through 300 years of track record of validated predictions,  that is intelligent design.

Under that criteria, real scientists should then respect the fact that they have indisputable signs of intelligence before their eyes when they look inside the cell.

Arguing intelligence is behind our existence is placing the cart before the horse.

(May 13, 2018 at 1:52 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 13, 2018 at 12:18 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: Repeat after me.   It is not magical.  It is not undirected.   It is directed by laws of chemistry and physics and thermodynamics.

Theists believe there is a magical entity that directs everything.  The entity can remain unobserved.  Its means of affecting reality can remain unobserved.  It’s origin, existence, reasons for action, capacity, origin of capacity, and mode of operation needs no explanation much less confirmation.  A simple unsubstantiated “it can do anything” is sufficient to dispel all doubts in such minds as are drawn to stories of such type of entity.  Most importantly that model of reality need not be called upon to produce any unique and testable predictions to be tested against things not yet observed to demonstrate it actually is analogous to reality in any discernible way.  But yet it must be accepted as totally true, or else hyperbolic threats of ever lasting torment are issued against the hypothetical eternal soul of the doubters.

Real scientists believe demonstrable laws of physics, chemistry and thermal dynamics acting in observed ways over long time, through deductible mechanism that are extensions and repetitions of observed mechanism, can explain the specifics of how life on earth came to be as we observe them, and how stars, planets and other aspects of reality can come to be as we observe them.  Most importantly each possible model of reality developed with this approach is called upon to produce unique and testable predictions of aspects of nature within its scope but which have not yet been directly observed in order to demonstrate the model actually contain real analogies to how reality works, or else it is dismissed as baseless.  Even when a model passed these rather difficult tests it is still accepted that the model may have gotten lucky and the possibility it is in fact wrong, no matter how unlikely observation has made that possibility, can never be fully excluded.

The latter is science.  

Attempting to pass the former off in the age of science as a respectable position by stealing the reputation of the latter had built through 300 years of track record of validated predictions,  that is intelligent design.

Under that criteria, real scientists should then respect the fact that they have indisputable signs of intelligence before their eyes when they look inside the cell.

Again, no. Why don’t you shut the fuck up and let real scientist doing real science using real scientific methods tdetermine what signs they see and not see, and stop pretending your bible addled mind gives you leave to pipe up in any serious discussion?

(May 13, 2018 at 1:52 am)CDF47 Wrote: Under that criteria, real scientists should then respect the fact that they have indisputable signs of intelligence before their eyes when they look inside the cell.

If they were truly indisputable the scientific community would have no choice but to agree.

You really do sound like a conspiracy theorist.

(May 13, 2018 at 1:56 am)Kit Wrote: Arguing intelligence is behind our existence is placing the cart before the horse.

Not in any way.  Information was found in living systems that perform advanced functions.  Intelligence should be automatically inferred once someone has a basic grasp of how this works.  There shouldn't need to be a 150 page thread to discuss it, even among atheists.  It is as if some are blinded by their own arrogance or ignorance or other reason.

(May 13, 2018 at 2:05 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 13, 2018 at 1:56 am)Kit Wrote: Arguing intelligence is behind our existence is placing the cart before the horse.

Not in any way.  Information was found in living systems that perform advanced functions.  Intelligence should be automatically inferred once someone has a basic grasp of how this works.  There shouldn't need to be a 150 page thread to discuss it, even among atheists.  It is as if some are blinded by their own arrogance or ignorance or other reason.

Intelligence is assumed, by people like you.  It can only be implied if there is actual evidence to back it up.

(May 13, 2018 at 2:05 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 13, 2018 at 1:56 am)Kit Wrote: Arguing intelligence is behind our existence is placing the cart before the horse.

Not in any way.  Information was found in living systems that perform advanced functions.  Intelligence should be automatically inferred once someone has a basic grasp of how this works.  There shouldn't need to be a 150 page thread to discuss it, even among atheists.  It is as if some are blinded by their own arrogance or ignorance or other reason.

Again, no. Why don’t you shut the fuck up and let real scientist doing real science using real scientific methods tdetermine what signs they see and not see, and stop pretending your bible addled mind gives you leave to pipe up in any serious discussion?

(May 13, 2018 at 1:59 am)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(May 13, 2018 at 1:52 am)CDF47 Wrote: Under that criteria, real scientists should then respect the fact that they have indisputable signs of intelligence before their eyes when they look inside the cell.

Again, no. Why don’t you shut the fuck up and let real scientist doing real science using real scientific methods tdetermine what signs they see and not see, and stop pretending your bible addled mind gives you leave to pipe up in any serious discussion?

There are serious scientists and great scientist that believe in a higher power in all fields.  More scientists believe in a higher power than there are atheistic scientists.  Some of the best scientists of all time believed in a higher power and in God and Newton said it actually helped him in his scientific field.

---

(May 13, 2018 at 2:03 am)possibletarian Wrote:

(May 13, 2018 at 1:52 am)CDF47 Wrote: Under that criteria, real scientists should then respect the fact that they have indisputable signs of intelligence before their eyes when they look inside the cell.

If they were truly indisputable the scientific community would have no choice but to agree.

You really do sound like a conspiracy theorist.

More scientist believe in a higher power than don't.

---

(May 13, 2018 at 2:07 am)Kit Wrote:

(May 13, 2018 at 2:05 am)CDF47 Wrote: Not in any way.  Information was found in living systems that perform advanced functions.  Intelligence should be automatically inferred once someone has a basic grasp of how this works.  There shouldn't need to be a 150 page thread to discuss it, even among atheists.  It is as if some are blinded by their own arrogance or ignorance or other reason.

Intelligence is assumed, by people like you.  It can only be implied if there is actual evidence to back it up.

There is actual proof to support it.