(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 8:21 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote: Start with omnipresence.
Gen 3:8-10
god plays a celestial game of hide and seek with Adam.

Next omniscience
Gen 3:9
God loses the game of celestial hide and seek by being unable to find Adam.
Gen 3:11
God has no clue that...
A. Adam ate the fruit
B. Eve gave it to him
C. The serpent told her to do so.
Adam has to tell him.

Next, omnipotence
Gen 3:2
god stupidly puts the trees (there are two) in the centre of the garden. He could have put them anywhere else.
god is unable to keep the serpent out of the garden.
god is unable to prevent the serpent talking to eve.
god is unable to prevent Adam and Eve eating the fruit.

Gen 3:22-23
god shits himself in fear lest Adam eat from the second tree and become his equal

And finally...
How would Adam and Eve know it was wrong until AFTER they ate the fruit? Is your god really that dumb?

All of this crap from one chapter of the very first book. There is plenty more where that came from. Wait until we get to slavery (which you tried to dodge), incest, iron chariots and the rest.

There is a lot of misinformation here and verses taken out of context.

It isn't misinformation, it is what your mad book states.

It isn't out of context, it is slap bang in the context of Genesis.
"out-of-context" is always the excuse used when a god-botherer is confronted with what the bible actually states.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: God always knows where Adam is.  He is talking to Adam in the next verse.  Adam tried to hide from God.

No, Gen 3:9 god explicitly states he couldn't find adam.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: God knows all these things but lets Adam explain them.  This is similar to what an angry parent might do to their child.  They know their child misbehaved but they let them explain.

Post hoc rationalisation.

You are now stating that while you admit what it says, you know what it really meant. That's dumb.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: God is capable of all those things but chose to give Adam and Eve free will to choose to love and obey him. 

That is not free will and they did not have it until AFTER the ate the fruit.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: They chose to disobey.

No, the serpent told them too and at that point they didn't know anything was wrong with that.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: He allowed the serpent to tempt them. 

What a prick. And didn't he already know how it would turn out?

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: He could have kept the serpent out of the garden if He chose. 

What a prick. So you now claim that your god maliciously framed Adam and Eve.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: There is only one tree.

That is an outright lie. Both are named in Gen 3

Tree of knowledge in Gen 2:17, that was the one they ate from.
Tree of Life in Gen 3:22. The one they had not eaten from and god shit himself

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: This verse is just stating the tree of life is now shut to man.  Man now has the knowledge of good and evil and he is banished from the garden.

Now there is a second tree? Make up your mind.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: God told them they would surely die.  They probably knew what death looked like by witnessing animal death.

There was no animal death up to then. The first happened in Gen 3:21. Up to that Adam and Eve were vegetarians. Explicitly stated in Gen 2:16. And before you claim that Adam could have been eating animals as well, god had not yet created them at that point.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote:

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(May 16, 2018 at 8:28 am)Mathilda Wrote: If your god gave free will to Adam and Eve and consequently to all humans, then how come you think that everything in the world is designed by him?

Because the Scriptures say so.

The scriptures say slavery, genocide, incest and human sacrifice is OK. Do you accept those?

(May 16, 2018 at 8:45 am)possibletarian Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 8:41 am)CDF47 Wrote: I agree, free will means they can love him or not and obey him or not.  It is their choice.

I agree, love cannot be compelled.

Knowing everything does not prevent free will.  He offers free will because He chooses not to force His people to love and obey Him or not.

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It's the father's will.  Besides they had an entire garden of apples to eat from.  There was just one they couldn't eat from.  Scripture does not indicate it was any better than the rest.

He allows Him in based on His will to see if man would choose Him or not.  This may also have to do with the war in heaven and seeing which side man chooses.  There are no fence sitters.  You either choose God or not.

That's utter bullshit, why oh why do you believe this nonsense ?

Because he really didn’t evolve?

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 8:28 am)Mathilda Wrote: If your god gave free will to Adam and Eve and consequently to all humans, then how come you think that everything in the world is designed by him?

Because the Scriptures say so.

But if a human designs something and they have free will, then your god could not have designed it.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:41 am)CDF47 Wrote: I agree, free will means they can love him or not and obey him or not.  It is their choice.

I agree, love cannot be compelled.

Knowing everything does not prevent free will.  He offers free will because He chooses not to force His people to love and obey Him or not.

If your god is omniscient then he, BY DEFINITION, knows in advance everything that you will do in every possible scenario. Furthermore he knows in advance what those scenarios will be. You have no choice but to do what god already knows what you will do.

Unless you change your claim and now your god is not omniscient. What's it gonna be?

(May 16, 2018 at 9:19 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote: If your god is omniscient then he, BY DEFINITION, knows in advance everything that you will do in every possible scenario. Furthermore he knows in advance what those scenarios will be. You have no choice but to do what god already knows what you will do.

Unless you change your claim and now your god is not omniscient. What's it gonna be?

Not to mention that it was inevitable that Adam and Eve would eventually eat the apple given that they were immortal and had a limited range of actions available to them because they lived in a constrained environment.

(May 16, 2018 at 9:13 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: There is a lot of misinformation here and verses taken out of context.

It isn't misinformation, it is what your mad book states.

It isn't out of context, it is slap bang in the context of Genesis.
"out-of-context" is always the excuse used when a god-botherer is confronted with what the bible actually states.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: God always knows where Adam is.  He is talking to Adam in the next verse.  Adam tried to hide from God.

No, Gen 3:9 god explicitly states he couldn't find adam.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: God knows all these things but lets Adam explain them.  This is similar to what an angry parent might do to their child.  They know their child misbehaved but they let them explain.

Post hoc rationalisation.

You are now stating that while you admit what it says, you know what it really meant. That's dumb.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: God is capable of all those things but chose to give Adam and Eve free will to choose to love and obey him. 

That is not free will and they did not have it until AFTER the ate the fruit.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: They chose to disobey.

No, the serpent told them too and at that point they didn't know anything was wrong with that.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: He allowed the serpent to tempt them. 

What a prick. And didn't he already know how it would turn out?

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: He could have kept the serpent out of the garden if He chose. 

What a prick. So you now claim that your god maliciously framed Adam and Eve.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: There is only one tree.

That is an outright lie. Both are named in Gen 3

Tree of knowledge in Gen 2:17, that was the one they ate from.
Tree of Life in Gen 3:22. The one they had not eaten from and god shit himself

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: This verse is just stating the tree of life is now shut to man.  Man now has the knowledge of good and evil and he is banished from the garden.

Now there is a second tree? Make up your mind.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: God told them they would surely die.  They probably knew what death looked like by witnessing animal death.

There was no animal death up to then. The first happened in Gen 3:21. Up to that Adam and Eve were vegetarians. Explicitly stated in Gen 2:16. And before you claim that Adam could have been eating animals as well, god had not yet created them at that point.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote:

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Because the Scriptures say so.

The scriptures say slavery, genocide, incest and human sacrifice is OK. Do you accept those?

You took it out of context.

He always knows where Adam is but wanted Adam to come out from hiding himself.

No, what I said stands.

It was a free will choice to eat the apple.

No, the serpent told Eve to and she knew because they were told not to eat of that tree.

Yes, He knew how it would turn out but He had a plan of redemption in place.

No, I am saying He allowed the serpent to tempt them. 

Oh yes, two trees.  God did not want them to eat of the tree of life so He had it guarded.  

Yes, two trees.

I believe there were carnivorous animals at the time.  I believe there was animal death.  I believe in Old Earth Creationism.

No, you just hate God and do what you can to make Him sound horrible when He is not.  He is just, loving, merciful, and trustworthy.  He also has anger and wrath though and punishes sin.

Try new verses so we don't go round in circles on these because that is what will happen.

(May 16, 2018 at 8:48 am)CDF47 Wrote: Because it is the inspired Word of God I believe.  I believe through faith and reason.  Science shows that the universe and living systems were designed and created.  From their I turn to theology and all the different religions.  Many of the pagan religions are the same with different characters,  similar to Osiris, Isis, and Horus.  Some religions have no creation story or a weird creation story.  It is the Bible that states in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth which I believe was the beginning of the Big Bang and the second heaven being the creation of our sky.

Yes you can make almost any religion fit the bill, but many religions do have creation stories, a few of them are very similar to those that feature in the bible. The bible itself features three different stories, how Christians account for this has twisted and turned through the years.

But the problem is it's nonsense to believe in the detail, no reasonable person equates the creation story with the science of the universe without excruciating twisting and assumption. It is clear it is simply another myth.

So what particular passages make you through reason believe it is a good account of science ?
Even then what makes you thing the story of the fall, or any supernatural experience is real ?

(May 16, 2018 at 9:15 am)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 8:45 am)possibletarian Wrote: That's utter bullshit, why oh why do you believe this nonsense ?

Because he really didn’t evolve?

He was created.

(May 16, 2018 at 9:17 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 8:37 am)CDF47 Wrote: Because the Scriptures say so.

But if a human designs something and they have free will, then your god could not have designed it.

Still waiting for a response.