(June 11, 2018 at 1:31 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(June 9, 2018 at 4:11 am)Mathilda Wrote: No. I am talking generally about how some of the more extreme reported religious experiences are probably because the person is on the psychosis spectrum and how because this performs a useful function is accepted as a religious experience.

When did a psychosis become useful? As far as I know it has always made life difficult for those who experience it.

My point was that their psychosis is useful for other people who want some evidence that they are believing in something that is correct and allows them to get rid of their doubts. Preaches will also find it useful to have people in their congregation who suffer from psychosis for the same reasons. In the same way that a con artist will typically work as a team, one person presenting the opportunity to the mark and the others who pretend to believe in it as well to encourage the mark to follow suit.

(June 11, 2018 at 1:31 am)Godscreated Wrote: Now my belief in God doesn't make my life more difficult on the contrary it has made my life much easier and more joyful to live and these thing are not part of a psychosis.

How do you know?

(June 11, 2018 at 2:24 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(June 11, 2018 at 1:31 am)Godscreated Wrote: When did a psychosis become useful? As far as I know it has always made life difficult for those who experience it.

My point was that their psychosis is useful for other people who want some evidence that they are believing in something that is correct and allows them to get rid of their doubts. Preaches will also find it useful to have people in their congregation who suffer from psychosis for the same reasons. In the same way that a con artist will typically work as a team, one person presenting the opportunity to the mark and the others who pretend to believe in it as well to encourage the mark to follow suit.

This makes no sense.

(June 11, 2018 at 1:31 am)Godscreated Wrote: Now my belief in God doesn't make my life more difficult on the contrary it has made my life much easier and more joyful to live and these thing are not part of a psychosis.

Mathtilda Wrote:How do you know?

Because I'm living my life and understand it.

GC

(June 7, 2018 at 12:33 pm)Khemikal Wrote: The majority of people talking about hearing or seeing the divine aren;t hallucinating in any sense.  It;s just churchspeak.  

That's true to a great extent. The "soft still voice" is, well, soft and still. Contemplative prayer, fasting, and meditation on the Scripture take time and commitment. In our over-busy culture that cannot tolerate any hint of boredom and needs constant stimulation, making time for God is not often a priority for many believers and not an attractive undertaking for atheists. If you want it, you can get it, but to get it, you have to want it.

(June 12, 2018 at 12:47 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(June 11, 2018 at 2:24 am)Mathilda Wrote: My point was that their psychosis is useful for other people who want some evidence that they are believing in something that is correct and allows them to get rid of their doubts. Preaches will also find it useful to have people in their congregation who suffer from psychosis for the same reasons. In the same way that a con artist will typically work as a team, one person presenting the opportunity to the mark and the others who pretend to believe in it as well to encourage the mark to follow suit.

This makes no sense.

If you are a con artist trying to convince someone to invest their money in a deal, you'll have far more success if the person you are trying to convince sees other people investing in it as well. This is why con artists do better in teams. One person presents the deal, the others pretend to invest in it.

In the same way if you are a preacher selling the idea of eternal paradise, you'll have more success convincing others if they see other people convinced of it as well. People are less likely to question their faith if they see other people having experiences. They'll be more likely to think that they aren't personally trying hard enough than to think that they have invested too much time and effort into a fantasy. People with psychosis immersed in religious imagery are more likely to have what they think are religious experiences but instead are symptoms of their brains being imbalanced. But because this is useful for other people (preachers and those wanting to convince themselves that their beliefs are correct) they are not only tolerated but encouraged as well.

(June 12, 2018 at 12:47 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(June 11, 2018 at 1:31 am)Godscreated Wrote: Now my belief in God doesn't make my life more difficult on the contrary it has made my life much easier and more joyful to live and these thing are not part of a psychosis.

Mathtilda Wrote:How do you know?

Because I'm living my life and understand it.

Someone with a psychosis would say the same thing if they think that their experiences are because of a god when they actually are a product of their brain.

(June 13, 2018 at 5:47 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(June 12, 2018 at 12:47 am)Godscreated Wrote: This makes no sense.

If you are a con artist trying to convince someone to invest their money in a deal, you'll have far more success if the person you are trying to convince sees other people investing in it as well. This is why con artists do better in teams. One person presents the deal, the others pretend to invest in it.

In the same way if you are a preacher selling the idea of eternal paradise, you'll have more success convincing others if they see other people convinced of it as well. People are less likely to question their faith if they see other people having experiences. They'll be more likely to think that they aren't personally trying hard enough than to think that they have invested too much time and effort into a fantasy. People with psychosis immersed in religious imagery are more likely to have what they think are religious experiences but instead are symptoms of their brains being imbalanced. But because this is useful for other people (preachers and those wanting to convince themselves that their beliefs are correct) they are not only tolerated but encouraged as well.

So happens a preacher only presents the message of Christ, the Holy Spirit convicts those who see they have a need after that it's up to that person and God whether the become believers or not, has nothing to do with the preacher or others in the congregation. The worship service in the church is for the saved, a lost person can't worship God because they do not know Him. Most people come to salvation outside of the worship service, most children get their information from Sunday School teachers and parents and most of them make a commitment to God out side of the church. Then most people tell the church after a worship service that they have committed their lives to Christ. So you are barking up the wrong tree with your con man psychosis gibberish.  

(June 12, 2018 at 12:47 am)Godscreated Wrote: Because I'm living my life and understand it.

Someone with a psychosis would say the same thing if they think that their experiences are because of a god when they actually are a product of their brain.[/quote]

 You dream on about what you think you know and you will dream yourself right into an eternal punishment, one that you are making. You'll be judged by God, and then He will let your own predetermined sentence be your punishment. I would think heaven would be a more attractive place, a place designed just for those who chose Christ one of everlasting beauty.

GC

(June 14, 2018 at 1:05 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(June 13, 2018 at 5:47 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(June 12, 2018 at 12:47 am)Godscreated Wrote: Because I'm living my life and understand it.

Someone with a psychosis would say the same thing if they think that their experiences are because of a god when they actually are a product of their brain.

 You dream on about what you think you know and you will dream yourself right into an eternal punishment, one that you are making. You'll be judged by God, and then He will let your own predetermined sentence be your punishment. I would think heaven would be a more attractive place, a place designed just for those who chose Christ one of everlasting beauty.

You're as bad as Mystic and his claims that disbelief is the result of "dark forces." Anytime you don't have a good answer for something, out come the not so veiled threats of hell. It's as transparent as it is shameful.

(June 14, 2018 at 1:29 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: Anytime you don't have a good answer for something, out come the not so veiled threats of hell.  It's as transparent as it is shameful.

This.

Since Jesus died for them, the least they can do is lie for him ... No shame in that, right theists?

(June 14, 2018 at 1:29 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(June 14, 2018 at 1:05 am)Godscreated Wrote:  You dream on about what you think you know and you will dream yourself right into an eternal punishment, one that you are making. You'll be judged by God, and then He will let your own predetermined sentence be your punishment. I would think heaven would be a more attractive place, a place designed just for those who chose Christ one of everlasting beauty.

You're as bad as Mystic and his claims that disbelief is the result of "dark forces."  Anytime you don't have a good answer for something, out come the not so veiled threats of hell.  It's as transparent as it is shameful.

Listen closely because I do not think I will say this again, I'm not threatening anyone, I'm stating what the Bible says, it's not in my ability to put someone in hell so there is no way I can threaten anyone with hell, this is logical yet the so called logical people here can't see it so you all must be poor in your logic. There was nothing veiled about what I said either, it was direct, I do not need to hide behind anything for I have the God of heaven on my side and it would be an injustice to not tell people about an eternal punishment. It bothers you that there is that possibility and you know it, if not you wouldn't get bent out of shape when it's mentioned. There are dark forces at work in this world, forces that you can't control, but they will control you as long as you stay naive.

GC

(June 14, 2018 at 3:03 am)Godscreated Wrote: Listen closely because I do not think I will say this again, I'm not threatening anyone, I'm stating what the Bible says

Yeah that doesn't describe the gleeful tone you christians like to use when telling people how sorry they'll be when they find out that they are wrong.

Sure, continue believing that you're just telling us what your magic book says. After all, you're the one that has to live with yourself. But the rest of us are very familiar with the emotional blackmail.

Because if we don't accept your magic book as anything other than a claim without evidence, then why should we listen when it says that we'll go to Hell?

The simplest explanation is that you are indulging in schadenfreude.