(June 14, 2018 at 1:51 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: The thread title is much too vague, as ALL critical thinking is a challenge for theists. 

Boru

In fairness.....that could only be applicable to our brand of theists on the board.  Many handle critical thinking NP.  The failure of our resident fishers of men shouldn;t be taken to be indicative of all believers.  

We just don;t get the smart ones around here..and when we do..they don;t stay long.

(June 14, 2018 at 2:06 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(June 14, 2018 at 9:16 am)Drich Wrote: this is not true. after 20+ years I find that 90% of atheists are funkie christians who were too lazy to actually read the bible for themselves. however most were religious and feel this translates into reading the bible as most don't mind a 1/2 assed effort to repersent a whole.

Quote:Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions.

Pew Research Center | U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey

Taken from your 2010 survey.
What do Mormons
White evangelical protestants
white catholic
mainline protestant
nothing in particular black protestant and hispanic catholics all have in common?

None of those groups center worship around the bible. meaning the bible is not the primary/only source for what is believed about God.

The mormons have several books including the book of mormon and the pearl of great price (1/2 others that are all supposedly equally considered to manufacture mormon doctrine.
evangelicals just make sh*t up as they go.. it is a 'feel good the holy spirit teaches me what i need to know and the bible is used as a loos guide line

Catholics have a book of traditions which are teaching of the popes (purgatory, indulgences (buying time out of purgatory with cash donations) then they have a completely different bible known as the septuagint or an english version based on the septuagint which is unlike the holy bible based on modern codacees. it is based on the LLX and the traditions of the church.

mainline protestants focus is one what it takes to be in a particular denomination. meaning the writings of the bible can sometimes be alered to fit a exhisting church doctrine. 

It's like you survey intentionally skewed the results by taking the most bible illertate christians and putting them up against the best athesim had to offer and still yet they barely beat the jews who by definition do not acknowledge 1/3 of the bible.

That said this poll does not represent membership here. I can promise you none of you has a base line knowledge of the bible. at best your well read in other's commentaries I can see this because you all (the smart ones) come to the same broken conclusions over and over again as if you were reading off the same page. not only that you all have no flexibility in your knowledge of the bible to accept correction or change. 

meaning if you read this book with the intention of finding the truth you would be able to openly and freely discuss fundamentals, and when you are shown that a precept you had was across the board wrong, you'd be able to adopt change.. that's not the case when your fundamentals are based on someone else's thoughts or commentaries. because when I show someone who came to the wrong conclusion on their own they can up root everything that has to do with that subject and adopt change when and where it was needed. but when your whole perspective is based on some other 'thinker's' cliff notes you are unable to not only see where you are wrong, you can not apply the change. why? because the fundamentals you have are not your own and you do not know where to begin or end with change. none of you speak with any biblical authority or foundation. all I see day after day is the core beliefs of men like hitchens or crowder ideas butchered into a new thread over and over again. That is why the same questions are asked 30 different ways. and when one of you finally gets what I am saying you assume I'm the one wrong I am the liar because it is so far off, of what you ve been told to think

....case in point.

(June 14, 2018 at 2:39 pm)Drich Wrote:

Taken from your 2010 survey.
What do Mormons
White evangelical protestants
white catholic
mainline protestant
nothing in particular black protestant and hispanic catholics all have in common?

None of those groups center worship around the bible. meaning the bible is not the primary/only source for what is believed about God.

The mormons have several books including the book of mormon and the pearl of great price (1/2 others that are all supposedly equally considered to manufacture mormon doctrine.
evangelicals just make sh*t up as they go.. it is a 'feel good the holy spirit teaches me what i need to know and the bible is used as a loos guide line

Catholics have a book of traditions which are teaching of the popes (purgatory, indulgences (buying time out of purgatory with cash donations) then they have a completely different bible known as the septuagint or an english version based on the septuagint which is unlike the holy bible based on modern codacees. it is based on the LLX and the traditions of the church.

mainline protestants focus is one what it takes to be in a particular denomination. meaning the writings of the bible can sometimes be alered to fit a exhisting church doctrine. 

It's like you survey intentionally skewed the results by taking the most bible illertate christians and putting them up against the best athesim had to offer and still yet they barely beat the jews who by definition do not acknowledge 1/3 of the bible.

That said this poll does not represent membership here. I can promise you none of you has a base line knowledge of the bible. at best your well read in other's commentaries I can see this because you all (the smart ones) come to the same broken conclusions over and over again as if you were reading off the same page. not only that you all have no flexibility in your knowledge of the bible to accept correction or change. 

meaning if you read this book with the intention of finding the truth you would be able to openly and freely discuss fundamentals, and when you are shown that a precept you had was across the board wrong, you'd be able to adopt change.. that's not the case when your fundamentals are based on someone else's thoughts or commentaries. because when I show someone who came to the wrong conclusion on their own they can up root everything that has to do with that subject and adopt change when and where it was needed. but when your whole perspective is based on some other 'thinker's' cliff notes you are unable to not only see where you are wrong, you can not apply the change. why? because the fundamentals you have are not your own and you do not know where to begin or end with change. none of you speak with any biblical authority or foundation. all I see day after day is the core beliefs of men like hitchens or crowder ideas butchered into a new thread over and over again. That is why the same questions are asked 30 different ways. and when one of you finally gets what I am saying you assume I'm the one wrong I am the liar because it is so far off, of what you ve been told to think

And the "No True Scotsman" argument makes yet another in a long line of historic appearances....

(June 14, 2018 at 1:50 pm)Drich Wrote: Only one article came up your links are broken. your links lead to pages with 10 other links none of which have anything to do with the topic you wrote about.

If you had followed the note at the bottom of my post, the links would have properly worked for you as they did for me ------ A note: you may need to type "yes" in the required field before you can access the site. Then simply refer back to this thread for the links since it doesn't seem to redirect to the article.

(June 14, 2018 at 2:12 pm)Drich Wrote:

(June 14, 2018 at 10:39 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Read it cover-to-cover twice, some parts (like Genesis and the Gospels) more times than I know. I think after 20+ years you're still pulling your estimates concerning the atheists you've interacted with directly from your ass.

then what is the book of Romans about?

fyi none of these: https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+...e&ie=UTF-8

tell us what the book is about. there are origins purpose studies and a commentaries but none of them tell you what the bottom line reason the book was written...

Surly after 2 whole times through the bible you'd be able to figure out what the book of romans is all about. (all you need is a one or two word answer)

I've read the bible through incrementally a study or piece at a time for 20+ years (close to 25 years) and I can't claim the knowledge the atheists on this website pretend to have with their read throughs... maybe that is the problem while I am looking into the hebrew and koine greek greater atheist minds can just extrapolate all the bibles meaning from a simple reading.  And all the brilliant threads like why does God hate women... they are there to trip us up rather than represent what they know of god.

Seriously... If you read the bible cover to cover, and pretend/think that means anything your wrong. The bible is a book set not set in any order other than what made sense at the time it was compiled. before it was compiled it was seperated into 4 groups. the moral law/God's law. Social law/what it meant to be an OT jew, Prophecy and the writings which included history and psalms. When the NT came you had the gospels and the epistoles and that's it. each epistle had a theme or lesson to be taught. So rather than arrange the bible by subject (which would lend it to be read from front to back in order) the bible is somewhat haphazardly arranged chronologically. With the beginning in the front and the end of everything n the rear. and in between we have books arranged in the order the 3rd century people thought they would have appeared.

Have I ever posted anything that would make a reasonable person think I would entertain demands from you?

You're the one who brought up reading the Bible, now out of the other side of your mouth you say it doesn't mean anything if we did. This kind of two-faced weaseling is why no one around here respects you.

(June 14, 2018 at 2:17 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(June 14, 2018 at 1:51 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: The thread title is much too vague, as ALL critical thinking is a challenge for theists. 

Boru

In fairness.....that could only be applicable to our brand of theists on the board.  Many handle critical thinking NP.  The failure of our resident fishers of men shouldn;t be taken to be indicative of all believers.  

We just don;t get the smart ones around here..and when we do..they don;t stay long.

I didn't mean to imply that theists can't think critically, simply that it is more challenging for them than for nonbelievers, as theists hold certain assumptions that must be true, at any cost.  Atheists are not so encumbered.

Boru

(June 14, 2018 at 2:39 pm)Drich Wrote:


It's like you survey intentionally skewed the results by taking the most bible illertate christians and putting them up against the best athesim had to offer and still yet they barely beat the jews who by definition do not acknowledge 1/3 of the bible.

A few points here. 

First, as I recall, the survey concerned general religious knowledge and wasn't conceived as a survey dealing specifically and exclusively with knowledge of the Bible, so it isn't really surprising that non-believers or Jews did better than Christians in the aggregate. 

Second, "White evangelical Protestants" are precisely those people who one would expect to be most Biblically literate, by your lights. I assume you didn't mean to include them in your blanket dismissal of the millions and millions of Christians who don't happen to read the Bible as you prefer.

Third, where did you get the idea that this was some sort of contest, pitting "the best atheism had to offer" against all other groups? Do you just make shit up to score points?

(June 14, 2018 at 6:02 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote:

(June 14, 2018 at 2:39 pm)Drich Wrote:


It's like you survey intentionally skewed the results by taking the most bible illertate christians and putting them up against the best athesim had to offer and still yet they barely beat the jews who by definition do not acknowledge 1/3 of the bible.

A few points here. 

First, as I recall, the survey concerned general religious knowledge and wasn't conceived as a survey dealing specifically and exclusively with knowledge of the Bible, so it isn't really surprising that non-believers or Jews did better than Christians in the aggregate. 

Second, "White evangelical Protestants" are precisely those people who one would expect to be most Biblically literate, by your lights. I assume you didn't mean to include them in your blanket dismissal of the millions and millions of Christians who don't happen to read the Bible as you prefer.

Third, where did you get the idea that this was some sort of contest, pitting "the best atheism had to offer" against all other groups? Do you just make shit up to score points?

Well one jorge quoted the 2010 poll to counter my claim that atheists are biblical illiterates.

2 it now seem the jews as of 2018 beat out the atheists..

I also took the test:
You answered 15 of 15 questions correctly (100%)
Here's how you did on these 15 questions (excerpted from the larger U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey) compared with a nationally representative sample of 3,412 adults. Your responses on the quiz do NOT affect the U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey's results. Read the Full Report: 
You scored better than 99% of the public, below 0% and the same as 1%.
1%
0
1%
1
3%
2
6%
3
8%
4
10%
5
11%
6
11%
7
10%
8
11%
9
8%
10
7%
11
6%
12
4%
13
2%
14
1%
15
TOTAL NUMBER OF QUESTIONS ANSWERED CORRECTLY
These percentages only reflect the 3,412 adults that ; online quiz results are not included in the sample.
Your responses and religious breakdowns
Here's how you did, question by question, compared to the % of people of different religious groups who answered each question correctly.


[size=undefined][size=undefined]
72
80
68
73
71
48
92
90
87
67
[/size][/size]

[size=undefined][size=undefined]
82
86
83
66
88
83
89
84
89
77
[/size][/size]

[size=undefined][size=undefined]
55
67
49
49
63
45
81
62
62
46
[/size][/size]

[size=undefined][size=undefined]
45
47
41
43
48
33
55
94
56
45
[/size][/size]

[size=undefined][size=undefined]
52
51
53
39
55
36
51
90
75
52
[/size][/size]

[size=undefined][size=undefined]
40
40
36
25
59
47
40
33
41
30
[/size][/size]

[size=undefined][size=undefined]
38
31
40
23
34
23
48
62
72
48
[/size][/size]

[size=undefined][size=undefined]
39
58
34
51
26
19
70
47
42
27
[/size][/size]

[size=undefined][size=undefined]
51
64
55
25
53
25
93
68
71
45
[/size][/size]

[size=undefined][size=undefined]
89
93
90
83
91
83
89
91
95
87
[/size][/size]

[size=undefined][size=undefined]
23
26
21
16
18
16
25
42
40
25
[/size][/size]

[size=undefined][size=undefined]
68
69
63
61
68
55
75
84
89
72
[/size][/size]

[size=undefined][size=undefined]
46
52
46
40
47
34
61
70
68
37
[/size][/size]

[size=undefined][size=undefined]
36
29
36
21
39
27
37
49
62
46
[/size][/size]

[size=undefined][size=undefined]
11
15
10
10
7
10
10
12
8
10
[/size][/size]
Compare your score
The following graphs show how you did on these 15 questions (excerpted from the larger U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey) compared with a nationally representative sample of 3,412 adults. Your responses on the quiz do NOT affect the U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey's results.
Your score

Overall population
50%
Religious Affiliation
Jewish
65%
Atheist/Agnostic
64%
Mormon
61%
White evangelical Prot.
54%
White Catholic
51%
White mainline Protestant
48%
Nothing in particular
48%
Black Protestant
42%
Hispanic Catholic
39%
Worship Service Attendance
At least weekly
52%
Monthly/yearly
48%
Seldom/never
49%
Gender
Men
52%
Women
48%
Education
Post-graduate training
68%
College graduate
61%
Some college
54%
High school or less
40%

While it dealt with some vague rules pertaining to other religions they asked alot of christian specific and jewish specific question. some of which were religious by nature while others were bible specific.