The Bible says that people saw God all the time. Some saw his face, others saw his ass.

Havelock Vetinari Wrote:And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.

That is all you need to know about your god, Steve. It, if it exists is the ultimate, nay the only, evil.

(June 14, 2018 at 3:08 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: The Bible says that people saw God all the time.  Some saw his face, others saw his ass.

Hmmmmmmm


Exodus 33 (KJV)
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.



Now I'm confused . . . . .

That's what you get for reading that silly book, V.

(June 14, 2018 at 4:57 pm)Minimalist Wrote: That's what you get for reading that silly book, V.

1 Corinthians 14 (KJV)
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

So if a verse is confusing God didn't write it ??

(June 14, 2018 at 4:15 pm)vorlon13 Wrote:

(June 14, 2018 at 3:08 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: The Bible says that people saw God all the time.  Some saw his face, others saw his ass.

Hmmmmmmm


Exodus 33  (KJV)
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.



Now I'm confused  . . . . .

It seems that you've missed a few =

Exodus 33:11  (KJV) = "11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle."

Exodus 33:21-23 (KJV) = Exodus 33:21-23 (KJV) = "21 And the Lord said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: 
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen."

Exodus 24:9-11 (KJV) = Exodus 24:9-11  (KJV) = "9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink."

Genesis 32:30 (KJV) = Genesis 32:30 (KJV) = "30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."

Judges 13:22 (KJV) = Judges 13:22  (KJV) = "22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God."


Is Yeshua (Jesus) God?  Christians worship him.  They say that he walked the Earth and interacted with people.  If that's true then a lot of people in the early First Century saw God.  Of course if he was imaginary then no one saw him.  

(June 14, 2018 at 5:16 pm)vorlon13 Wrote:

(June 14, 2018 at 4:57 pm)Minimalist Wrote: That's what you get for reading that silly book, V.

1 Corinthians 14  (KJV)
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

So if a verse is confusing God didn't write it ??

You know what this means.

(June 14, 2018 at 1:22 pm)SteveII Wrote: I don't think the God is immutable in all respects. I would say he is in his nature/character, faithfulness and wisdom. But to say he does not change at all comes with so much metaphysical baggage that you have to cart around with your systematic theology. I think God experiences relationships in dynamic time and with every new experience, there is something that was not there before (more love, pride, concern, sadness, and/or just increasing knowledge of past events). To restate my position on God and time, I think God existed timelessly and unchanging without creation and temporally and changing with creation.

I guess, based on my current position, I will have to cart that baggage :-) since immutablity is the inevitable conclusion of the Prime Mover demonstration (the First Way of Aquinas). The main difficulty revolves around why God would change states. It sets up a cause apart from God acting on Him to instigate a change in God. There is also the concern that if God responds to His creation then at least some of His actions become contingent. That to me seems the opposite of what it should be. Without some kind of kenosis, I do not see how God could subject Himself to the limits of time, His own creation.

My problem is explaining all the biblical narratives in which God seems to interact with His creation such as providing the Cross in reaction to the Fall, arguing with Abraham over the fate of Lot, expressing regret before the Flood, etc. At this point, I would only say that I read the bible phenomenologically in that it expresses our experience of God, i.e. while we experience God as changing, that impression is an illusion caused by our time-bound perspective. I also have a problem explaining the life and passion of Jesus since God in the Flesh sure seems like God making Himself subject to the limitations of his creation. It's a complex topic. Unfortunately I don't have time to relate my approach just yet.

Can you two even agree on how tall your invisible friend is?

With or without the ears?