(June 22, 2018 at 9:34 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: 1. Yes they are full of shit when they act as if they are above everything when they act in a similar fashion 

Is not taking an stance on the left or the right acting like you're above everything or saying you don't want to be on those teams?

Quote:2.No they are by definition not part of the conflict . They like to pretend they are above .But then reality asserts itself

How is saying you don't agree with either side saying you're above it? What reality asserts itself?

Quote:3.And no they all to often indulge in a new ideology of radical centrism 

Oh, come on.

Quote:4. Then by choosing no team you have chosen a team.

That's not how it works. Listen, encourage your team to stop letting nut jobs be the mouth piece and I'll consider leaning toward you politically. As it is now, just today alone, I've seen a handful or more leftists shrug at the idea of what Peter Fonda said, I had a leftist call one of my clients racist on Facebook (on my page, embarrassingly) for saying he wants immigrants to take legal avenues like his own mother did, and I've seen righties say it's the parents' fault these children are being treated the way they are at the border. Damn right I'm above those things. I'd be ashamed of myself if I weren't.

I mean, you can't say those types of things about people just because they're related to Trump. If you want to talk about Ivanka's role in conflicts of interest, fine.

But what has Barron done? Maybe he's a nice kid, for all I know.

(June 22, 2018 at 9:43 pm)The Industrial Atheist Wrote: I mean, you can't say those types of things about people just because they're related to Trump. If you want to talk about Ivanka's role in conflicts of interest, fine.

But what has Barron done? Maybe he's a nice kid, for all I know.

He’s just a kid.  That’s all anyone needs to know.

(June 22, 2018 at 9:34 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:You said they are full of shit, not crude mean-spirited or awful. How are they full of shit? Are you saying they proclaim they've never done anything bad? I'm sure some centrists do that because they are human. However, they are, by definition, not part of this left/right war. In general, they take each issue as it stands, instead of siding with a side just because it's their side. They don't pretend to be on the only side of moral right. 

I would be left wing if a lot of left wing people didn't make me wildly uncomfortable with their aggression, which for me is saying something. Same thing with feminism. The sheer hate dripping off some of them turns me off. I can't be on these teams.

1. Yes they are full of shit when they act as if they are above everything when they act in a similar fashion 

2.No they are by definition not part of the conflict . They like to pretend they are above .But then reality asserts itself

1. I agree with that sentiment, no matter who expresses it, but don't know what that last clause is about.

2. So are they acting as though they are above conflicts, or are they "by definition" not part of the conflicts? And where did you get the idea that political centrism commits someone to not committing to something? 

Quote:3.And no they all to often indulge in a new ideology of radical centrism

I confess: I have absolutely no idea what 'radical centrism' even means, much less how it amounts to an ideology.

Quote:4. Then by choosing no team you have chosen a team.

For my part, I have zero interest in joining a "team". However, I will gladly join with like-minded people and political allies to further the public interest. Depending on the issue, this will likely result in shifting allegiances. That's why my voter registration has me listed as an independent. I'm not here to carry water for any party.

(June 22, 2018 at 9:42 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(June 22, 2018 at 9:34 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: 1. Yes they are full of shit when they act as if they are above everything when they act in a similar fashion 

Is not taking an stance on the left or the right acting like you're above everything or saying you don't want to be on those teams?

Quote:2.No they are by definition not part of the conflict . They like to pretend they are above .But then reality asserts itself

How is saying you don't agree with either side saying you're above it? What reality asserts itself?

Quote:3.And no they all to often indulge in a new ideology of radical centrism 

Oh, come on.

Quote:4. Then by choosing no team you have chosen a team.

That's not how it works. Listen, encourage your team to stop letting nut jobs be the mouth piece and I'll consider leaning toward you politically. As it is now, just today alone, I've seen a handful or more leftists shrug at the idea of what Peter Fonda said, I had a leftist call one of my clients racist on Facebook (on my page, embarrassingly) for saying he wants immigrants to take legal avenues like his own mother did, and I've seen righties say it's the parents' fault these children are being treated the way they are at the border. Damn right I'm above those things. I'd be ashamed of myself if I weren't.

I restate my point  self proclaimed centrists are not above the same viciousness as any other side . I don't see what's controversial about this ? And Centrists can become just a radical in their centrism as any other group . I don't see why this is controversial either ?  But i do find the antagonism here  toward  criticism  of position that's suppose to be so neutral and unsided funny .

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(June 22, 2018 at 9:51 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote:

(June 22, 2018 at 9:34 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: 1. Yes they are full of shit when they act as if they are above everything when they act in a similar fashion 

2.No they are by definition not part of the conflict . They like to pretend they are above .But then reality asserts itself

1. I agree with that sentiment, no matter who expresses it, but don't know what that last clause is about.

2. So are they acting as though they are above conflicts, or are they "by definition" not part of the conflicts? And where did you get the idea that political centrism commits someone to not committing to something? 

Quote:3.And no they all to often indulge in a new ideology of radical centrism

I confess: I have absolutely no idea what 'radical centrism' even means, much less how it amounts to an ideology.

Quote:4. Then by choosing no team you have chosen a team.

For my part, I have zero interest in joining a "team". However, I will gladly join with like-minded people and political allies to further the public interest. Depending on the issue, this will likely result in shifting allegiances. That's why my voter registration has me listed as an independent. I'm not here to carry water for any party.

I restate my point  self proclaimed centrists are not above the same viciousness as any other side . I don't see what's controversial about this ? And Centrists can become just a radical in their centrism as any other group . I don't see why this is controversial either ?  But i do find the antagonism here  toward  criticism  of position that's suppose to be so neutral and unsided funny .

But who, besides you, is saying it's 'neutral and unsided'?

It's not antagonism toward criticism. I don't even consider myself centrist, as much as I consider myself not left or right. I'm literally curious about what you mean because I don't understand your meaning.

Of course centrists can be vicious. People are vicious. What I'm saying is that I don't feel compelled to excuse any shitty behavior because of the side I'm on, because I am on no side. I don't have to defend Trump or Fonda, because neither are my teammates.

What's wrong with centrism? What's wrong with radical centrism? Nothing. It just isn't the left, so you can't possibly be okay with it. It's funny that my criticism is only against far right and left big mouths, but you took it personally. Do you think what I say applies to you?

(June 22, 2018 at 10:04 pm)Shell B Wrote: It's not antagonism toward criticism. I don't even consider myself centrist, as much as I consider myself not left or right. I'm literally curious about what you mean because I don't understand your meaning.

Of course centrists can be vicious. People are vicious. What I'm saying is that I don't feel compelled to excuse any shitty behavior because of the side I'm on, because I am on no side. I don't have to defend Trump or Fonda, because neither are my teammates.

What's wrong with centrism? What's wrong with radical centrism? Nothing. It just isn't the left, so you can't possibly be okay with it. It's funny that my criticism is only against far right and left big mouths, but you took it personally. Do you think what I say applies to you?

One thing I think the cultural "left" needs to keep in mind is that they have a lot of potential allies on a host of social issues among so-called centrists, independents, Democrats, etc. 

For instance, my centrism is largely defined by security and economic issues. On many social issues, on the other hand, there's hardly a dime's-worth of difference between me and people who self-identify as left-wing -- largely because I tend to view such issues through a libertarian (note the lower case letter) lens.

(June 22, 2018 at 9:38 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(June 22, 2018 at 9:23 pm)Shell B Wrote: You said they are full of shit, not crude mean-spirited or awful. How are they full of shit? Are you saying they proclaim they've never done anything bad? I'm sure some centrists do that because they are human. However, they are, by definition, not part of this left/right war. In general, they take each issue as it stands, instead of siding with a side just because it's their side. They don't pretend to be on the only side of moral right.

I would be left wing if a lot of left wing people didn't make me wildly uncomfortable with their aggression, which for me is saying something. Same thing with feminism. The sheer hate dripping off some of them turns me off. I can't be on these teams.

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I was responding to Brian.

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Right?! This is crazy.

This shit is bananas!

B-A-N-A-N-A-S!


(Wow, typing that half-drunk was no simple task)

Or, as I put it on my shopping list, Ba, na-na-na-na, na-na-na-na, na-na-na-na, na-na-na-nas.

BoT, I would really like to see that everyone agrees that posting and/or doing mean (not the original definition of mean- "petty") things to kids is abhorrent, no matter who spawned them; never mind the rhetoric and vitriol aimed at either side. This has been an enlightening thread in many ways, into the psyche of many people who post here.

Meh. There are worse things to be than a radical centrist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_centrism