(June 26, 2018 at 10:43 pm)A Theist Wrote: If Dems like Maxine Waters keep running their big mouths and if more leftists continue to become unhinged with their harrassing of Trump cabinet members we might see the so called blue wave implode on itself. Long time Democrat Representative, Joe Crowley, just lost to a far left newcomer tonight in New York primaries. Seems like there's a revolt happening within the democrat party.

Disposing of the neoliberal hacks one by one. No room for moderate Dems with heavy corporate ties. Time to elect some actual liberals.

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(June 27, 2018 at 8:21 am)Libertarian God Wrote: Personally I think we need a Libertarian wave. Not a red or blue wave. But that's just me.

I don't know why. The "fiscally conservative" party is already in power cutting every necessary social program until it bleeds out. You don't need any libertarian blood suckers to do it.

(June 26, 2018 at 10:52 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(June 26, 2018 at 9:08 pm)Jehanne Wrote: He's all smiles now:




Donald Trump Says ‘Red Wave’ Brewing, Not Blue Wave

I intend to keep this thread up every 30 days or so, until this November.  What do you all think??

Has he invited his friend Putin to invade?

I think I saw in the news recently that Trump's staff was arranging a meeting with Putin.  Looks like it is time for him to check in again with his KGB handlers.

(June 27, 2018 at 9:49 am)Aegon Wrote:

(June 26, 2018 at 10:43 pm)A Theist Wrote: If Dems like Maxine Waters keep running their big mouths and if more leftists continue to become unhinged with their harrassing of Trump cabinet members we might see the so called blue wave implode on itself. Long time Democrat Representative, Joe Crowley, just lost to a far left newcomer tonight in New York primaries. Seems like there's a revolt happening within the democrat party.

Disposing of the neoliberal hacks one by one. No room for moderate Dems with heavy corporate ties. Time to elect some actual liberals.

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(June 27, 2018 at 8:21 am)Libertarian God Wrote: Personally I think we need a Libertarian wave. Not a red or blue wave. But that's just me.

I don't know why. The "fiscally conservative" party is already in power cutting every necessary social program until it bleeds out. You don't need any libertarian blood suckers to do it.

Hey at least I'm honest about it! I just don't believe in large government. I think much of it should be privatized such as education, ems and healthcare. At a bare minimum I believe government should serve only a few purposes. That is protect it's people, and it's people's rights. I just want my weed and guns.

BUT....that is how I feel. Don't hurt me

(June 26, 2018 at 9:40 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:
Red Wave you say

^^^^^ USSR, sold the same authoritarianism in the name of national security.

(June 27, 2018 at 10:03 am)Libertarian God Wrote:

(June 27, 2018 at 9:49 am)Aegon Wrote: Disposing of the neoliberal hacks one by one. No room for moderate Dems with heavy corporate ties. Time to elect some actual liberals.

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I don't know why. The "fiscally conservative" party is already in power cutting every necessary social program until it bleeds out. You don't need any libertarian blood suckers to do it.

Hey at least I'm honest about it! I just don't believe in large government. I think much of it should be privatized such as education, ems and healthcare. At a bare minimum I believe government should serve only a few purposes. That is protect it's people, and it's people's rights. I just want my weed and guns.

BUT....that is how I feel. Don't hurt me

If you were really honest you'd say you want mostly privitized health care because you want poor people to die. Or never have a chance at making something of themselves due to overwhelming medical debt. But rightwing libertarians live in the same fantasy world as communists.

I know that was harsh, but I don't respect that POV , sorry. I think it's pretty fucked up. Health care is a right and you'll never have a productive work force or efficient market with privitized health care. It's morally and fiscally irresponsible.

I'd consider myself left libertarian by the way. I only believe a free market that doesn't fuck over the individual is one with a generous social safety net, which includes a public health care system that anybody can opt into if they can't afford private. Thinking a society can function with such minimal government intervention is as unrealistic as thinking a communist regime will actually work like the Marxist literature claims it would.

(June 27, 2018 at 10:21 am)Aegon Wrote:

(June 27, 2018 at 10:03 am)Libertarian God Wrote: Hey at least I'm honest about it! I just don't believe in large government. I think much of it should be privatized such as education, ems and healthcare. At a bare minimum I believe government should serve only a few purposes. That is protect it's people, and it's people's rights. I just want my weed and guns.

BUT....that is how I feel. Don't hurt me

If you were really honest you'd say you want mostly privitized health care because you want poor people to die. Or never have a chance at making something of themselves due to overwhelming medical debt. But rightwing libertarians live in the same fantasy world as communists.

I know that was harsh, but I don't respect that POV , sorry. I think it's pretty fucked up. Health care is a right and you'll never have a productive work force or efficient market with privitized health care. It's morally and fiscally irresponsible.

I'd consider myself left libertarian by the way. I only believe a free market that doesn't fuck over the individual is one with a generous social safety net, which includes a public health care system that anybody can opt into if they can't afford private. Thinking a society can function with such minimal government intervention is as unrealistic as thinking a communist regime will actually work like the Marxist literature claims it would.

Fair enough. However, could you explain to me why you believe it is a right? I am just wondering.

(June 27, 2018 at 9:49 am)Aegon Wrote:

(June 26, 2018 at 10:43 pm)A Theist Wrote: If Dems like Maxine Waters keep running their big mouths and if more leftists continue to become unhinged with their harrassing of Trump cabinet members we might see the so called blue wave implode on itself. Long time Democrat Representative, Joe Crowley, just lost to a far left newcomer tonight in New York primaries. Seems like there's a revolt happening within the democrat party.

Disposing of the neoliberal hacks one by one. No room for moderate Dems with heavy corporate ties. Time to elect some actual liberals.

---

(June 27, 2018 at 8:21 am)Libertarian God Wrote: Personally I think we need a Libertarian wave. Not a red or blue wave. But that's just me.

I don't know why. The "fiscally conservative" party is already in power cutting every necessary social program until it bleeds out. You don't need any libertarian blood suckers to do it.

A "Libertarian" to me is simply someone who is ok with LGBT and minorities but still buys the same failed "fuck you I got mine" economics of the GOP. 

Great if you support minorities, but giving billionaires tax breaks they don't need isn't going to help out the middle class or working poor regardless of being in the majority or minority.

The debt in America is based on a bubble economy. The GOP theory is that if you deregulate and don't tax the rich they will pay workers more and add more jobs. The truth is they never do. Demand is the only thing that will force a business to hire. And even GOP business owners will tell you that. But, they use the claim "we are the job creators" when they damned well know demand is. And the bulk of demand are not rich people, but working people, that is where the bulk of our population is.

The idea that all taxes are robbery is absurd. Giving tax breaks to billionaires who don't need them is the real robbery, because that adds to the long term debt and if the rich are not paying it over decades, the rest of us have to compensate for what they don't pay. That simply creates a bubble economy, and the jobs they do generate still do not meet the cost of living and only create a short term sense of stability. 

You can look up economic history in America, and the same ideology that lead to the Great Depression is the same mindset that started Reagan's failed trickle down causing a bubble every decade ending in Bush's great recession. 

Investment is what happened after WW2 and what ended up building a middle class, creating unions and more worker stability. If we are to believe GOP/Libertarian economic theory, the way they vilify liberal ideas, that would mean America was a communist state between WW2 and 1980, but we all know that is simply flat out bullshit.

There is a reason we have anti monopoly laws, which we have ignored and or scrapped since Reagan, and what we see in workers having to work more for less is a direct result of allowing billionaires too much political power currently. Have there been decent rich who do try to do the right thing? YES ABSOLUTELY, but currently not enough.

It is not anti private sector to insure wealth does not get abusive. We have had that in our history. One of the worst examples were the coal mine Barron's monopolies of the early 1900s. The scam was that a rich baron would buy up all the property, including housing and grocery stores, pay the workers in company script, but by the time their bills were due, they were in debt. We are seeing the same predatory practices today, with pay not keeping up with the cost of living, but easy credit, payday loans, title loans, "reverse mortgage". 

We also live in an age where Wells Fargo gets away with illegal acts and only get a slap on the wrist. We live in an age where Genex and coal ash gets dumped in our water supply and again, only a slap on the wrist.

There is not enough accountability at the top. None of what I just typed is advocating for a nanny state or the  end of the private sector. I think Libertarians are certainly far more willing to defend minorities socially, but none of that does any good if they still get affected more negatively on average. But they are not any better on wallet issues than the GOP.

I think single payer is always going to have pushback, because people don't want to be responsible for other people's bad decisions.

If a person lives a relatively healthy life, and gets ass cancer, I think people would be okay paying for their treatment.

If a person smokes for 40 years and gets lung cancer, people won't want to pay for their treatment.

Free to do as you please, but the consequences are your own, is an idea that resonates a bit.

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In regards to the OP, a red wave isn't out of the question. We're getting a lot of hyperbole from the left. Hyperbole is good for reinforcing the base, but it's a turnoff to regular people.

"If you vote Trump, you're a nazi!" works amazing in a bubble. But most people have family and friends who voted for Trump that they know and like that they don't consider Nazis. I think it's greatly underestimated how the messaging plays for the people who's entire identities aren't wrapped up in politics. The people who could actually be persuaded one way or the other. "Vote for our guy, or you're a nazi!", I imagine, seems juvenile.

(June 27, 2018 at 10:21 am)Aegon Wrote:

(June 27, 2018 at 10:03 am)Libertarian God Wrote: Hey at least I'm honest about it! I just don't believe in large government. I think much of it should be privatized such as education, ems and healthcare. At a bare minimum I believe government should serve only a few purposes. That is protect it's people, and it's people's rights. I just want my weed and guns.

BUT....that is how I feel. Don't hurt me

If you were really honest you'd say you want mostly privitized health care because you want poor people to die. Or never have a chance at making something of themselves due to overwhelming medical debt. But rightwing libertarians live in the same fantasy world as communists.

I know that was harsh, but I don't respect that POV , sorry. I think it's pretty fucked up. Health care is a right and you'll never have a productive work force or efficient market with privitized health care. It's morally and fiscally irresponsible.

I'd consider myself left libertarian by the way. I only believe a free market that doesn't fuck over the individual is one with a generous social safety net, which includes a public health care system that anybody can opt into if they can't afford private. Thinking a society can function with such minimal government intervention is as unrealistic as thinking a communist regime will actually work like the Marxist literature claims it would.

Well, to be fair, I get a fucking lip twitch when I see fellow atheists sport the Che avatar. Che is the asshole who lead to Castro's Cuba which like the USSR was based on Marxist views. Marx was right in that workers should have a voice, but was dead wrong on how to do that. Ayn Rand economics is the opposite and just as fucked up. 

Mixed economies with social safety nets do not bar the private sector, but should provide health care and education. 

There is also a myth that closed states do not have a private sector. And just a visit to any Walmart where most of your products are MADE IN CHINA, should debunk that myth. Saudi Arabia's royal family owns banks and oil and invests in the global weapons industry. Fidel Castro had a personal wealth of $800,000 dollars. Gadaffi was a billionaire who owned stock in GE. "Capitalism" is not a form of government. There is not one nation in the world, that does not invest in the global market.

Government has to grow as the population grows. It isn't to say it should over spend no. But America would not function if we still only had 13 Senators when we now have 50 states.

(June 27, 2018 at 10:03 am)Libertarian God Wrote:

(June 27, 2018 at 9:49 am)Aegon Wrote: Disposing of the neoliberal hacks one by one. No room for moderate Dems with heavy corporate ties. Time to elect some actual liberals.

---

I don't know why. The "fiscally conservative" party is already in power cutting every necessary social program until it bleeds out. You don't need any libertarian blood suckers to do it.

Hey at least I'm honest about it! I just don't believe in large government. I think much of it should be privatized such as education, ems and healthcare. At a bare minimum I believe government should serve only a few purposes. That is protect it's people, and it's people's rights. I just want my weed and guns.

BUT....that is how I feel. Don't hurt me

Then quite frankly, you're part of the problem.