(July 2, 2018 at 6:43 pm)JairCrawford Wrote: Again, if someone questions my beliefs, I am naturally going to respond. I don't expect you to agree, or even take me seriously even for that matter. That is out of my control.

What's in your control, however, is to stop believing the biblical rubbish that thinks it has any semblance of realistic truth to it.

(July 2, 2018 at 6:46 pm)Kit Wrote:

(July 2, 2018 at 6:43 pm)JairCrawford Wrote: Again, if someone questions my beliefs, I am naturally going to respond. I don't expect you to agree, or even take me seriously even for that matter. That is out of my control.

What's in your control, however, is to stop believing the biblical rubbish to have any semblance of realistic truth to it.

Perhaps. But the arguments I have investigated so far regarding certain topics covered in scripture, such as the nativity, have not sufficiently convinced me to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Mind you, there are plenty of areas of scripture that I am convinced are not meant to be taken literally. For example, the Old Testament laws being literally dictated by God contradicts Jesus' own teachings as per the New Testament.

(July 2, 2018 at 2:13 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(July 1, 2018 at 11:12 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: As usual Huggy you fail to make a case

And as usual Huggy cherry picks what to reply to in order to avoid the main argument

(July 1, 2018 at 10:16 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: So then according to your logic human beings also don't have any moral values because they also sometimes kill their infants.

Much like how Huggy cherry picked Frans De Waal ...

(July 1, 2018 at 1:45 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: As he writes from the article you cite:

Quote:For example, female chimpanzees have been seen to drag reluctant males towards each other to make up after a fight, removing weapons from their hands, and high-ranking males regularly act as impartial arbiters to settle disputes in the community. I take these hints of community concern as yet another sign that the building blocks of morality are older than humanity, and that we do not need God to explain how we got where we are today.

Of course Huggy is trying to ignore all these points which is why I am reminding him here. But if I say anything else on in this post that he could respond to instead he'll use it to ignore Fake Messiah's points again.

I didn't ignore anything, I didn't think it was necessary to explain how "building blocks of morality" do not equate to 'morality'.

Could you even define what a "building block of morality" even is in the first place? Nevertheless De Waal stated that he would not call animals moral beings so obviously he does not believe they posses all the "building blocks of morality"

Morality isn't just the ability to discern right and wrong, it's also about having a system of justice to punish immoral behavior.

Law defines immoral or unacceptable behavior, without law there can be no morality (or at least morality that isn't subjective) because morality isn't left up for one person to decide.

This is what differentiates us from animals.

(July 2, 2018 at 6:57 pm)JairCrawford Wrote: Perhaps. But the arguments I have investigated so far regarding certain topics covered in scripture, such as the nativity, have not sufficiently convinced me to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Mind you, there are plenty of areas of scripture that I am convinced are not meant to be taken literally. For example, the Old Testament laws being literally dictated by God contradicts Jesus' own teachings as per the New Testament.

What you have studied? No, I shall stop you right there, because what you have studied is merely the same delusion other delusional people believe. This can be proven due to the fact that what you believe goes not only against reality but also that it takes something magical like "faith" to believe it as real. If faith is needed to believe it as real, then that should automatically be an indicator that it is not real.

(July 2, 2018 at 7:01 pm)Kit Wrote:

(July 2, 2018 at 6:57 pm)JairCrawford Wrote: Perhaps. But the arguments I have investigated so far regarding certain topics covered in scripture, such as the nativity, have not sufficiently convinced me to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Mind you, there are plenty of areas of scripture that I am convinced are not meant to be taken literally. For example, the Old Testament laws being literally dictated by God contradicts Jesus' own teachings as per the New Testament.

What you have studied? No, I shall stop you right there, because what you have studied is merely the same delusion other delusional people believe. This can be proven due to the fact that what you believe goes not only against reality but also that it takes something magical like "faith" to believe it as real. If faith is needed to believe it as real, then that should automatically be an indicator that it is not real.

On the topic of faith, we are very likely to reach an impasse, because ultimately my view of the essentiality of faith will inevitably come into play, as will your view of the un-reliability/uselessness of faith. It's a topic that we diametrically see differently.

(July 2, 2018 at 7:07 pm)JairCrawford Wrote: On the topic of faith, we are very likely to reach an impasse, because ultimately my view of the essentiality of faith will inevitably come into play, as will your view of the un-reliability/uselessness of faith. It's a topic that we diametrically see differently.

Oh, yes, because faith is personal. Heard that apologist argument before. Know what else is personal? Delusions, of which religious belief is a valid part.

But by all means, continue to be delusional but call it personal faith to help you sleep better at night.

(July 2, 2018 at 7:10 pm)Kit Wrote:

(July 2, 2018 at 7:07 pm)JairCrawford Wrote: On the topic of faith, we are very likely to reach an impasse, because ultimately my view of the essentiality of faith will inevitably come into play, as will your view of the un-reliability/uselessness of faith. It's a topic that we diametrically see differently.

Oh, yes, because faith is personal. Heard that apologist argument before. Know what else is personal? Delusions, of which religious belief is a valid part.

But by all means, continue to be delusional but call it personal faith to help you sleep better at night.

I didn't intend for it to come across as apologetics, honestly. I just don't expect us to agree there.

(July 2, 2018 at 7:23 pm)JairCrawford Wrote: I didn't intend for it to come across as apologetics, honestly. I just don't expect us to agree there.

Sometimes, it is not about finding a middle ground. Sometimes, something is so grotesque, in a way that does more harm to society than the superficial benefit it purports, that one of reason must speak against it. Religion is that thing of which I speak, that is so evil it only does more harm the more it exists despite the fact that there are "well-intentioned" believers.

(July 2, 2018 at 7:27 pm)Kit Wrote:

(July 2, 2018 at 7:23 pm)JairCrawford Wrote: I didn't intend for it to come across as apologetics, honestly. I just don't expect us to agree there.

Sometimes, it is not about finding a middle ground. Sometimes, something is so grotesque, in a way that does more harm to society than the superficial benefit it purports, that one of reason must speak against it. Religion is that thing of which I speak, that is so evil it only does more harm the more it exists despite the fact that there are "well-intentioned" believers.

That I can understand. There is great hypocrisy within the church right now. The church has a tendency to persecute and then cry that they are being persecuted. We can go on and on about what's been committed in God's name in history. It isn't pretty. Not to mention the psychological manipulation. And these things must be spoken out against, from both within and from out.

(July 2, 2018 at 7:38 pm)JairCrawford Wrote: That I can understand. There is great hypocrisy within the church right now. The church has a tendency to persecute and then cry that they are being persecuted. We can go on and on about what's been committed in God's name in history. It isn't pretty. Not to mention the psychological manipulation. And these things must be spoken out against, from both within and from out.

This is basically how I view it:

People can read a J.K. Rowling novel and logically view Voldermort as the bad guy. The same people can read the bible and ill-logically view god as the good guy. Reading comprehension skills and logic become skewed all of a sudden, because "god".