(July 29, 2018 at 5:16 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 29, 2018 at 3:14 pm)emjay Wrote: I didn't know that either (ex-Protestant here if that makes a difference)... didn't know there was supposed to be anything special about Mary. Are you saying she was claimed to be born of a virgin as well as Jesus? Or am I completely misunderstanding your meaning here?

As to the other, have you tried swivelling your head around?

The dogmatic reasoning runs thus:

1.  Since Eve tempted Adam and the latter succumbed to the temptation, all human beings are born with the taint [stop giggling] of original sin.

2.  Jesus, as the Son of Man and coeval with God the Father, has to necessarily be free of sin.

3.  In order for Jesus to be free of sin, Mary had to be free of sin also, as the Vessel of The Saviour.

4.  Since God knows all things, he knew Mary was destined to be the mother of Jesus and pre-redeemed her prior to the visit from the Holy Ghost (in other words, God eliminated in her all trace of sin, including original sin).

I didn't spend those 12 horrifying years in Catholic school for nothing, you know.

This is what is known as 'Catholic Logic'.  Feel free to laugh until your gums bleed.

I'm afraid that swiveling my head round would get me exorcised, not excommunicated. 

Boru

Right, thanks for the info... it's interesting. You really should have put two 'stop gigglings' though... one to stifle the giggling following the first Anyway, as a protestant I don't think there was any emphasis on the 'taint' in (1)... or at least not in the same way... in other words you'd be a blank slate when you were born, cursed yes, but cursed in the ways listed in Genesis... cursed basically to be human and suffer as humans suffer (the pain of childbirth and a hard rather than easy life etc)... but only thereafter be susceptible to sin... that sin was something you did, not were. So from that, I'd never get to (3) because as I saw it, Jesus could be free of sin if he simply did not sin with his acts in the course of his life, and thus no need for any pre-emptive sin-scrubbing acts, on him or anyone else. So, just to be clear, was the pre-redeeming you're talking about in (4) a virgin birth of her? If so, is that described in the Bible? Ie was it just a matter of interpretation of something in the Bible that protestants would overlook or interpret differently, or... if not in the Bible, how does the Catholic church justify this?

As for excommunication... what about divorce... that might do it? I mean, if you're particularly attached to your wife, you could always get married again

There are women alive today named Mary. They matter more than any mythical figure. Be here now. Fuck the first century. Nothing from that age matters anymore.

Three Catholic students meet up on a train on their way to seminary and strike up a conversation.

First says "Hi, I'm Peter, but I'm no saint."

Second says "I'm Paul, but I'm not an apostle."

The third blushes and says "I'm Mary, and I don't know how to finish this sentence."

The Immaculate Deception...

I always thought that Immaculate Conception meant that god didn't get any jizz on the sheets.

(July 29, 2018 at 6:24 pm)Graufreud Wrote: A question to Boru as an apostate catholic.... I read that "Catholic priests have been given the power to forgive sins, acting as representatives of the Holy Spirit."

If a priest is a child rapist/molester, does he retain the power to forgive sins or that power is taken back?
What did they say about this in Catholic school?

It's situational.  If a child-raping priest confesses and is absolved, he retains the authority to absolve the sins of others.  Of course, if he confesses, the local church authorities will typically visit upon him the hideous punishment of transferring him to another diocese.  In the Church, this is known as 'justice' (Catholics are often confused about what words actually mean).

Boru

(July 30, 2018 at 4:33 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 29, 2018 at 6:24 pm)Graufreud Wrote: A question to Boru as an apostate catholic.... I read that "Catholic priests have been given the power to forgive sins, acting as representatives of the Holy Spirit."

If a priest is a child rapist/molester, does he retain the power to forgive sins or that power is taken back?
What did they say about this in Catholic school?

It's situational.  If a child-raping priest confesses and is absolved, he retains the authority to absolve the sins of others.  Of course, if he confesses, the local church authorities will typically visit upon him the hideous punishment of transferring him to another diocese.  In the Church, this is known as 'justice' (Catholics are often confused about what words actually mean).

Boru

Or even worse a punishment, make him a cardinal. The horror, the horror!

(July 30, 2018 at 6:00 am)Wololo Wrote:

(July 30, 2018 at 4:33 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: It's situational.  If a child-raping priest confesses and is absolved, he retains the authority to absolve the sins of others.  Of course, if he confesses, the local church authorities will typically visit upon him the hideous punishment of transferring him to another diocese.  In the Church, this is known as 'justice' (Catholics are often confused about what words actually mean).

Boru

Or even worse a punishment, make him a cardinal.  The horror, the horror!

wait a sec, are you serious? they do that???

(July 30, 2018 at 6:02 am)Graufreud Wrote:

(July 30, 2018 at 6:00 am)Wololo Wrote: Or even worse a punishment, make him a cardinal.  The horror, the horror!

wait a sec, are you serious? they do that???

Oh yeah, Eamon Martin when a young priest and canon lawyer swore two boys to secrecy after being raped. Today he's primate of all-Ireland & holds one of the country's two red hats. George Pell was made cardinal despite the church knowing he had legal issues relating to child sex abuse. He was second after the pope when he was arrested & brought to trial. A number of US cardinals are facing trial due to either child sex abuse or covering up same.

(July 30, 2018 at 8:30 am)Wololo Wrote:

(July 30, 2018 at 6:02 am)Graufreud Wrote: wait a sec, are you serious? they do that???

Oh yeah, Eamon Martin when a young priest and canon lawyer swore two boys to secrecy after being raped.  Today he's primate of all-Ireland & holds one of the country's two red hats.  George Pell was made cardinal despite the church knowing he had legal issues relating to child sex abuse.  He was second after the pope when he was arrested & brought to trial.  A number of US cardinals are facing trial due to either child sex abuse or covering up same.

You must be joking, at least about Eamon Martin. 

"Martin is also a director of the National Board for Safeguarding Children in the Catholic Church – the body set up in the wake of widespread ."