(July 30, 2018 at 9:47 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 30, 2018 at 9:41 am)Mathilda Wrote: Socialism is not evil.

Dictatorships are evil, but "socializing" is what every government does. Every government collects taxes to pay their military, their police and education systems, for good or bad. 

America also collects taxes to pay for our military, our police, our education system. We also have other social programs like "SOCIAL SECURITY" and Medicare, and the morons on the right love gutting funding for everything but if you touch social security or medicare even they flip out, but then stupidly keep voting for the party that wants to gut social security and medicare to pay for billionaire tax breaks.

But social programs is not socialism though. Socialism is to control what you can think or say or do to keep the status quo of equality, it also is about class struggles, which is different than social unequality reasons of a democracy, socialism is pretty much one sided on it. Thats why i say Socialism is about denying reality and more giving their view of how society should be like and not what your opinions are, usually its not to use facts to debunk your claims but more put you in jail if you give wrong opinion that may be considered offensive "not to be confused with discrimination laws(which you most likely wont go to jail for but there are consequences and rules) or incitement to violence(which can lead to arrest depending the security level)" its more the view of free speech of you have the freedom to use it but you also have the freedom to look silly too if facts debunks it.

(July 30, 2018 at 8:19 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote: Ok first of all. Its called Social Democracy, there's a difference.

(July 30, 2018 at 9:57 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote:

(July 30, 2018 at 9:47 am)Brian37 Wrote: Dictatorships are evil, but "socializing" is what every government does. Every government collects taxes to pay their military, their police and education systems, for good or bad. 

America also collects taxes to pay for our military, our police, our education system. We also have other social programs like "SOCIAL SECURITY" and Medicare, and the morons on the right love gutting funding for everything but if you touch social security or medicare even they flip out, but then stupidly keep voting for the party that wants to gut social security and medicare to pay for billionaire tax breaks.

But social programs is not socialism though. Socialism is to control what you can think or say or do to keep the status quo of equality, it also is about class struggles, which is different than social unequality reasons of a democracy, socialism is pretty much one sided on it. Thats why i say Socialism is about denying reality and more giving their view of how society should be like and not what your opinions are, usually its not to use facts to debunk your claims but more put you in jail if you give wrong opinion that may be considered offensive "not to be confused with discrimination laws(which you most likely wont go to jail for but there are consequences and rules) or incitement to violence(which can lead to arrest depending the security level)" its more the view of free speech of you have the freedom to use it but you also have the freedom to look silly too if facts debunks it.

That’s you definition of socialism, which seems to be a tortured mental gymnastic construct to reconcile on the one hand the Fox new/Republicunt/Libertarian/Sarah palin screech you wish to embrace that deem socialism is by categoric definition evil, and on the other hand some vestigial sanity not yet gotten rid of that tells you society with finite resources will degenerate into stagnant, deceptive and barbaric free for all in which the advantages of preexisting wealth and power is massively increased and there is little in it for the ordinary man that is not smoke and mirrors of religion or patriotism if some substantial elements of socialism and central planning are not in force.

(July 30, 2018 at 9:57 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote: Socialism is to control what you can think or say or do to keep the status quo of equality,

No it isn't.

(July 30, 2018 at 9:57 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote: it also is about class struggles, which is different than social unequality reasons of a democracy, socialism is pretty much one sided on it.

The whole point of socialism is that the government or the workers control the means of production. This removes class and makes social mobility irrelevant.

(July 30, 2018 at 9:37 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 30, 2018 at 9:33 am)The Industrial Atheist Wrote: Yeah it's a misnomer. We're kind of messed up in the US. A lot of people here don't even know the difference between Socialism and Communism.

What you're not getting is that Bernie himself is actually really a Social Democrat. I'm not sure you've heard much of what he has to say on the real relevant issues on the topic.

He has made it very easy for the right to strawman him. It was a bad move to call himself a Democratic Socialist.

Much of the DSA are actually Social Democrats. I don't think any country is really Socialist if you really examine things.

I will gladly support politicians like Bernie and Occasion Cortez, because they are right on the issues.

Very few in the US are actually post-Capitalist.

The word "social" has been vilified for decades as a result of the "Red Scare" because of the cold war with the Soviet Union.

If you look at post WW2 tax codes and the amount of investment between 46 and 1980 you had far more worker unions, higher taxes, cheaper education and an lower gap between the top and bottom.

For sure, sometime during the '50's we had  a marginal tax rate of  %90 or something. When Occaasio Cortez suggests we do this again, she gets strawmanned. They act like they want to take %90 of all everyone makes. The way a marginal tax rate works is they take some percentage of everything beyond certain amounts.
Like if you had $100,000 and it were for sake of argument %20 for $60,000 and %23 for $90,000 they take %20 of everything past $60,000 and then %23 of what's past $90,000. It's not an absolute number.

People who want to keep us so far right of Europe, and pretty far right of where we were 60-70 years ago can't win with rational arguments. They have to strawman.

(July 30, 2018 at 10:15 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(July 30, 2018 at 9:57 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote: Socialism is to control what you can think or say or do to keep the status quo of equality,

No it isn't.

(July 30, 2018 at 9:57 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote: it also is about class struggles, which is different than social unequality reasons of a democracy, socialism is pretty much one sided on it.

The whole point of socialism is that the government or the workers control the means of production. This removes class and makes social mobility irrelevant.

Its a fantasy land of fighting the oppressors against the oppressed. Not to highlight relevant unequality and relevant issues through activism. Socialism is about denying reality as a whole

Edit: alright maybe an example would be in order

Socialism typically: Straight christian oppressive rich priviledge white male. Remove it and replace it with whatever is the socialist answer, atleast in a neo marxist mind set of the oppressor vs the oppressed, meanwhile ignoring actual issues. Atleast this is the 1st world problem type of class struggles

Social program model to fight unequality: Highlight issues like poverty, social unequality issues etc, racism, sexism whatever.

(July 30, 2018 at 10:27 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote:

(July 30, 2018 at 10:15 am)Mathilda Wrote: No it isn't.


The whole point of socialism is that the government or the workers control the means of production. This removes class and makes social mobility irrelevant.

Its a fantasy land of fighting the oppressors against the oppressed. Not to highlight relevant unequality and relevant issues through activism. Socialism is about denying reality as a whole

You don't know that. You just think it. Yet you are saying 'we know socialism and fascism are both evil.'

So tell us. What aspects of reality are denied by socialism?

(July 30, 2018 at 10:27 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote:

(July 30, 2018 at 10:15 am)Mathilda Wrote: No it isn't.


The whole point of socialism is that the government or the workers control the means of production. This removes class and makes social mobility irrelevant.

Its a fantasy land of fighting the oppressors against the oppressed. Not to highlight relevant unequality and relevant issues through activism. Socialism is about denying reality as a whole

Edit: alright maybe an example would be in order

Socialism typically: Straight christian oppressive rich priviledge white male. Remove it and replace it with whatever is the socialist answer, atleast in a neo marxist mind set of the oppressor vs the oppressed, meanwhile ignoring actual issues. Atleast this is the 1st world problem type of class struggles

Social program model to fight unequality: Highlight issues like poverty, social unequality issues etc, racism, sexism whatever.

Again, that is your peculiar definition of socialism, concocted undoubtedly to avoid admitting the baleful influence of the 40 year Long Republican war against anything that could put centrally assessed good of the society above advantaged individual’s untrammeled ability to secure their unearned status and profit themselves grotesquely at the net expense to society and posterity.

Maybe KaiBerg02 should give us examples of a Socialist country that isn't actually enacting a form of Communism.

(July 30, 2018 at 10:33 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(July 30, 2018 at 10:27 am)KaiBerg02 Wrote: Its a fantasy land of fighting the oppressors against the oppressed. Not to highlight relevant unequality and relevant issues through activism. Socialism is about denying reality as a whole

You don't know that. You just think it. Yet you are saying 'we know socialism and fascism are both evil.'

So tell us. What aspects of reality are denied by socialism?

Well first of that capitalism is bad even though its productive, maybe if one wants empathy model then social programs but capitalism is pretty much good. Atleast i dont know of any better economic model so far to make a country prosperious.

But really its because it thinks it knows best about issues, so if socialism runs the country there is no one to challenge it on free speech, because it can define what is hate speech or not. Not based on facts or anything. Just look at United Kingdom lately in terms of free speech its clearly very into neo marxism mentally all together of what you can say or not say. Controversial maybe, but the fact that they can dictate what you can say is really just sad

It is by default denying reality and problems that needs to be called out and not what government think is right, thats something that democracy and parties can take up issues and have a debate about