The hadiths of Ahlulbayt (as) emphasize that the name of God is hidden in many ways despite it being what gives light to all things.  While those who guard believe in that which has been hidden, which other verses show is the sign and proof, which is the reminder and name of God, which is the leader and guide.

There is legitimate question, if it's a book of guidance, why aren't all humans following it. So after briefly mentioning some traits of the guided people, it goes on to mention, traits of those who vehemently oppose guidance and disbelieve in proofs after it's been shown to them.

The question if Mohammad or the Guides after him are at all to be blamed for the misguidance, it says, "as for those who disbelieve,  whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe."

They are in state where as God "put on their hearts a seal, and on their hearing, and for them is a great punishment."

In these verses alone, it can be interpreted there is no hope for a disbeliever after has disbelieved, but other verses in Quran show, that God will forgive disbelievers if they cease their opposition and accept the proofs of God and follow his guidance.

This is saying however, warning them doesn't avail them anymore, it's a decision they have to make for themselves.  Warning them about dangers or their fate won't change their minds.

(August 29, 2018 at 10:27 am)MysticKnight Wrote: The hadiths of Ahlulbayt (as) emphasize that the name of God is hidden in many ways despite it being what gives light to all things.  While those who guard believe in that which has been hidden, which other verses show is the sign and proof, which is the reminder and name of God, which is the leader and guide.

There is legitimate question, if it's a book of guidance, why aren't all humans following it. So after briefly mentioning some traits of the guided people, it goes on to mention, traits of those who vehemently oppose guidance and disbelieve in proofs after it's been shown to them.

The question if Mohammad or the Guides after him are at all to be blamed for the misguidance, it says, "as for those who disbelieve,  whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe."

They are in state where as God "put on their hearts a seal, and on their hearing, and for them is a great punishment."

In these verses alone, it can be interpreted there is no hope for a disbeliever after has disbelieved, but other verses in Quran show, that God will forgive disbelievers if they cease their opposition and accept the proofs of God and follow his guidance.

This is saying however, warning them doesn't avail them anymore, it's a decision they have to make for themselves.  Warning them about dangers or their fate won't change their minds.

So, in other words, you believe that the book is true and skeptics are wrong because you believe the book is true.

Well, I can't argue with that!

(August 29, 2018 at 10:27 am)MysticKnight Wrote: They are in state where as God "put on their hearts a seal, and on their hearing, and for them is a great punishment."

Now wait a minute..I thought that evil magicians and djinn were doing that, now you tell me that the "dark forces and magic" is actually allah? How am I supposed to come to belief if the lord of the cosmos is puttin the bad juju on me?

What a douchenozzle.

He can't admit that nose goblins are making him believe dark forces are affecting our judgement.

Nose goblins and pussy trolls, man.

Another question arises though, is why are those all claiming to believe in God and follow his guidance, not good people and do sometimes the most horrible things.

And this an important question, and this one is perhaps taken more seriously by this Chapter, then the other types of disbelief.  

And there are some people who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers.
They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they do not perceive.
There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they lied. 
And when it is said to them, Do not make mischief in the land, they say: We are but peace-makers.
Now surely they themselves are the mischief makers, but they do not perceive.
And when it is said to them: Believe as the people believe they say: Shall we believe as the fools believe? Now surely they themselves are the fools, but they do not know.
And when they meet those who believe, they say: We believe; and when they are alone with their Devils, they say: Surely we are with you, we were only mocking.
Allah shall pay them back their mockery, and He leaves them alone in their inordinacy, blindly wandering on.
These are they who buy error for the right direction, so their bargain shall bring no gain, nor are they the followers of the right direction.
Their parable is like the parable of one who kindled a fire but when it had illumined all around him, Allah took away their light, and left them in utter darkness-- they do not see.
Deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they will not turn back.


These people have deceived themselves they believe, but they are not at all believers. We will see that the Quran shows why the Torah and Gospels didn't guide people all those claiming to believe in it, despite it being an ultimate guidance for those who did truly believe and hold on the reminder of their time.

And in fact, it's not rational to assume all those claiming to believe are believing on proof and have reflected to see the truth! Many are just holding to the creed because that's what their family believed in and they follow it blindly, whether those creeds happen to be true, doesn't make them believers!

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(August 29, 2018 at 10:50 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(August 29, 2018 at 10:27 am)MysticKnight Wrote: They are in state where as God "put on their hearts a seal, and on their hearing, and for them is a great punishment."

Now wait a minute..I thought that evil magicians and djinn were doing that, now you tell me that the "dark forces and magic" is actually allah?  How am I supposed to come to belief if the lord of the cosmos is puttin the bad juju on me?  

What a douchenozzle.

Because the Creator is the designer of the system and allows rebellion and misguidance, he attributes leaving people immersed in belief in the false idol and the dark magic on the hearts and believing in the dark magic and false idol, as him putting a veil, because he is capable of protecting and removing the veil. You will see Quran elaborates that all good and evil is from God, although what is good is more worthy to be attributed to God then ourselves while evil is more worthy to be attributed to ourselves then God!

Somethings are true from one perspective, and it seems an opposing statement would contradict it, but it doesn't, it's just from another perspective.

(August 29, 2018 at 10:55 am)MysticKnight Wrote: And there are some people who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers.
They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they do not perceive.
There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they lied. 
And when it is said to them, Do not make mischief in the land, they say: We are but peace-makers.
Now surely they themselves are the mischief makers, but they do not perceive.
And when it is said to them: Believe as the people believe they say: Shall we believe as the fools believe? Now surely they themselves are the fools, but they do not know.
And when they meet those who believe, they say: We believe; and when they are alone with their Devils, they say: Surely we are with you, we were only mocking.
Allah shall pay them back their mockery, and He leaves them alone in their inordinacy, blindly wandering on.
These are they who buy error for the right direction, so their bargain shall bring no gain, nor are they the followers of the right direction.
Their parable is like the parable of one who kindled a fire but when it had illumined all around him, Allah took away their light, and left them in utter darkness-- they do not see.
Deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they will not turn back.

(August 29, 2018 at 10:55 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Somethings are true from one perspective, and it seems an opposing statement would contradict it, but it doesn't, it's just from another perspective.

Uh-huh..and sometimes assholes just can't get their story straight.  

An interesting contrast is that God says there trade didn't benefit them when they bought misguidance for guidance and this a contrast to those who guard and are truly successful.

In then turns to a people who in majority case aren't disbelievers or believers, but are yet to make a decision:

2:21 O ye people! Worship your Lord who created you and created those before you, that you may guard.


Guarding is a level of worship of God but it includes guarding against evil that we may afflict to others.  Other verses emphasize to guard so that we maybe grateful/thankful, and this state is the highest form of worship of God, but it's also the best way to value others, that is to appreciate them, and to appreciate oneself is also a key part in this.

Another verse in the same Surah will emphasize if we forget God, we forget ourselves. Thus, God, who is needless of us realizes the most how much we need him. 

This advise in the flow comes as a call to all humans and invitation to walk the path of guarding against evil and says the way to do that is to worship our Lord.

Yeah, the middle east is looking real swell.