I've been trying to figure out a response for several days. When I come to it, there isn't any one thing which is particularly disturbing about religion. If it were only one thing, I might have a more casual attitude toward religion than I do (and I'm pretty casual toward religion overall). But it really is a basket full of deplorables. It isn't that any one thing is all that bad, and things like anti-intellectualism or hypocrisy tend to be simply extensions of common human traits, it's more that all together religion makes up a perfect storm of bad things. If I were to pick out one thing as my biggest beef with religion, it would be that the little good that it does offer is so massively outweighed by all the negative.

(September 20, 2018 at 7:30 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: I've been trying to figure out a response for several days.  When I come to it, there isn't any one thing which is particularly disturbing about religion.  If it were only one thing, I might have a more casual attitude toward religion than I do (and I'm pretty casual toward religion overall).  But it really is a basket full of deplorables.  It isn't that any one thing is all that bad, and things like anti-intellectualism or hypocrisy tend to be simply extensions of common human traits, it's more that all together religion makes up a perfect storm of bad things.  If I were to pick out one thing as my biggest beef with religion, it would be that the little good that it does offer is so massively outweighed by all the negative.

Well put. It was difficult to pick a single one when I could probably fill a list of 20 or more. I wonder how long I could keep going in fact.

I'm now torn between my previous answer of indoctration, and divisiveness. Again though, I think the former is largely responsible for the latter. My even more general answer would simply be harm. If it didn't cause harm, I wouldn't be nearly as concerned about it.

(September 20, 2018 at 7:38 am)robvalue Wrote:

(September 20, 2018 at 7:30 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: I've been trying to figure out a response for several days.  When I come to it, there isn't any one thing which is particularly disturbing about religion.  If it were only one thing, I might have a more casual attitude toward religion than I do (and I'm pretty casual toward religion overall).  But it really is a basket full of deplorables.  It isn't that any one thing is all that bad, and things like anti-intellectualism or hypocrisy tend to be simply extensions of common human traits, it's more that all together religion makes up a perfect storm of bad things.  If I were to pick out one thing as my biggest beef with religion, it would be that the little good that it does offer is so massively outweighed by all the negative.

Well put. It was difficult to pick a single one when I could probably fill a list of 20 or more. I wonder how long I could keep going in fact.

I'm now torn between my previous answer of indoctration, and divisiveness. Again though, I think the former is largely responsible for the latter. My even more general answer would simply be harm. If it didn't cause harm, I wouldn't be nearly as concerned about it.

I don't know about divisiveness, but the reason we find indoctrination a negative is because we find religion itself to be a negative. The one is a consequence of the other. We don't object to parents indoctrinating their children into not putting their hands on a hot stove or not playing in traffic. We oppose indoctrination because of what it leads to.

(September 20, 2018 at 7:58 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(September 20, 2018 at 7:38 am)robvalue Wrote: Well put. It was difficult to pick a single one when I could probably fill a list of 20 or more. I wonder how long I could keep going in fact.

I'm now torn between my previous answer of indoctration, and divisiveness. Again though, I think the former is largely responsible for the latter. My even more general answer would simply be harm. If it didn't cause harm, I wouldn't be nearly as concerned about it.

I don't know about divisiveness, but the reason we find indoctrination a negative is because we find religion itself to be a negative.  The one is a consequence of the other.  We don't object to parents indoctrinating their children into not putting their hands on a hot stove or not playing in traffic.  We oppose indoctrination because of what it leads to.

Indeed.

I would propose some sort of litmus test. Is this something the child would figure out for themselves at a later age? Is there a good reason for them to accept it as fact right now, at a young age? (Is God giving out black marks that can't be removed even to young children who don't understand how to think properly yet? What an evil fuck.)

I don't know if "getting them young" is just part of a vicious cycle, or whether it's the result of a nagging doubt that they would never believe this stuff when they are older.

(September 16, 2018 at 8:18 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: Mind-fucking the kids.

“As oppossed to...” - Catholics

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Terrible jokes aside, I’d say that my biggest beef with religion in general is the proselytizing. I mean just consider the self-aggrandizement of it all. You’re so bloody important that god has revealed truths to you the rest of us poor shmucks aren’t privy to? Fuck off.

As for a more direct beef leveled at Christianity, which I deal with far more often than any other religion, I’d say it’s their concept of heaven. It sounds more like hell than their actual hell.

(September 20, 2018 at 7:30 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: I've been trying to figure out a response for several days.  When I come to it, there isn't any one thing which is particularly disturbing about religion.  If it were only one thing, I might have a more casual attitude toward religion than I do (and I'm pretty casual toward religion overall).  But it really is a basket full of deplorables.  It isn't that any one thing is all that bad, and things like anti-intellectualism or hypocrisy tend to be simply extensions of common human traits, it's more that all together religion makes up a perfect storm of bad things.  If I were to pick out one thing as my biggest beef with religion, it would be that the little good that it does offer is so massively outweighed by all the negative.

Religion is the most effective way to get a load of wankers to work for a common goal.

A lot of people who believe in their religion tend to get violent or ostracize people who don't believe the way they do. Even though they don't have concrete evidence that their god is real, or his ideas are what's best for the whole of Humanity. For instance, there's a verse in the bible where Jesus tells his followers to pray privately, and don't proselytize like the pharisees. If people actually followed that, and kept their religion low key while letting other people get on with their lives, we wouldn't have nearly as many problems with religion. We'd all get along much better, respecting different beliefs. You want to follow Jesus? Fine.  Don't try to force other people to follow him.

You can have all the crazy beliefs and rituals you want. As long as you aren't hurting other people, we have no problem. Just also respect other people's beliefs, as long as they aren't hurting other people.

Probably that religion makes people feel like they have a certain set of beliefs that can't be disrespected without it being called blasphemy, but beliefs about anything else are fair game to be disrespected.

(September 20, 2018 at 2:19 am)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(September 20, 2018 at 2:02 am)Minimalist Wrote: Yeah... they thought sin caused disease.  Moron.

They might not have known about bacteria or viruses, but the ancients still had stunning insights concerning human nature and politics.

They sure as shit knew nothing about bacteria or viruses....

https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/me...l-england/

Quote:No one knew what caused diseases then. There was no knowledge of germs. Medieval peasants had been taught by the church that any illness was a punishment from God for sinful behaviour. Therefore, any illness was self-imposed – the result of an individual’s behaviour.

Other theories put forward for diseases included “humours”. It was believed that the body had four humours (fluids in our bodies) and if these became unbalanced you got ill. Doctors studied a patient’s urine to detect if there was any unbalance.

And pounding someone on the head with a mace was one of their main "political" innovations.  At this time, the only light in the world was in the muslim areas and they had to go fuck that up in the name of 'allah.'

Hey listen, if these religious people would keep religion to themselves and perhaps be like in some countries where people are only Christian during holidays and funerals I wouldn't say a thing but needles to say that mostly they're not.

They force their religious crap into schools, politics and worst of all science and I mean medical science where people are dying because medical science has been restricted and people don't have a cure because these primitive religious assholes are afraid they will upset Jesus.

Yeah imagine this: one day when I'm diagnosed with cancer or I need an organ or I have a bad crash and I need regenerated nerve tissue to be able to walk again I want there to be cure or at least that medical scientists tried to find it and not to be sentenced to die because these death cult people worship death.

Here is, for instance, a scrap from a book called "Genetics For Dummies"