(September 21, 2011 at 1:32 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Hey WC. Nice to have you back.

Thank you. I feel like crap...

Quote:According to you WC, you studied this yourself. Correct? And now you don't understand why you once believed it?

Because evidently the God concept I was indoctrinated with then later abandoned, and the one you currently believe is real, are not the same.

Quote:God loves you because of the potential he put in you to return that love... but mainly, because in returning that love you get to be the most complete you could possibly be.

So he made me, brought me into an existence of mortality in a chaotic reality, with no greater purpose than just to love him from a very-long-distance? How is that not selfish and irresponsible? Not to mention what does a universe-creating god want or need with emotions like love anyway?

Regardless, I'm not living up to your god's expectations. Its "hope" of being loved back is squashed by the fact that I don't love him. End of story. Providing I remain rational and skeptical throughout my life, like so many gone before me, I never will love this thing. There is no potential - therefore it stands to reason that if it exists it doesn't love me any more. You would regard me as a "lost cause" correct?

Quote:God's purpose for you is to be all that you could be.

Currently, despite undergoing various painful operations and clinic assessments in hospital, enduring a suffocatingly cold haphazard reality where people are being born and dying all the time, I am all that I could ever be. I am self-aware. I am able to have this debate with you. While in seventy or so years at most I'll be dead and gone.

Quote:You need to explain why I should enter into a discussion with you about the concept of a god who isn't the Christian God. Your interpretation of the Xtian God is way off kilter. The Abrahamic faiths which compiled the evidence conclude the opposite to what you do. That should tell you that you're misreading it.

Then that's obviously where you need to stop and define god to me before we can continue this discussion any further.

Quote:3. He respects your choice, he has to having given you choice. He is there continually offerring to you. Are you open to his communication to you?

You propose this god thingy created me. It has the power to bridge the gap - it has to make the first move. My parents were considerate and loving enough to let me know they exist and allow me to become part of their family. Magic Man has to care enough to let me know he exists. If he's real and yet is so indifferent he can't even be bothered to begin a mere five minute bloody conversation with me, he does not love me, period.

(September 21, 2011 at 3:36 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: I feel like crap...

Sorry to hear that bud.

(September 21, 2011 at 3:36 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: the God concept I was indoctrinated with then later abandoned, and the one you currently believe is real, are not the same.

Interesting. When you say 'indoctrinated'.. do you mean you were raised into it then?

(September 21, 2011 at 3:36 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: So he made me, brought me into an existence of mortality in a chaotic reality, with no greater purpose than just to love him from a very-long-distance? How is that not selfish and irresponsible? Not to mention what does a universe-creating god want or need with emotions like love anyway?

Chaos is also beautiful.
There is no greater purpose than love.
It's not long distance, it's in your face.

(September 21, 2011 at 3:36 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: Regardless, I'm not living up to your god's expectations. Its "hope" of being loved back is squashed by the fact that I don't love him. End of story. Providing I remain rational and skeptical throughout my life, like so many gone before me, I never will love this thing.

Never say never. Keep an open mind: Be skeptical - that includes your own position on things.

(September 21, 2011 at 3:36 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: There is no potential - therefore it stands to reason that if it exists it doesn't love me any more. You would regard me as a "lost cause" correct?

There is always potential, as long as you have the capacity to think.
No one is lost, even at death.

(September 21, 2011 at 3:36 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: Currently, despite undergoing various painful operations and clinic assessments in hospital, enduring a suffocatingly cold haphazard reality where people are being born and dying all the time, I am all that I could ever be. I am self-aware. I am able to have this debate with you. While in seventy or so years at most I'll be dead and gone.

No matter what your world view, you can look at things positively and negatively. Sometimes so much shit happens it's hard to see clear of that... I know I'm bad for that.

(September 21, 2011 at 3:36 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: define god to me

Equivical biblical statements about God:
God is one. (Deut. 6:4, Romans 3:30, Galatians 3:20, James 2:19)
God is holy. (Psalm 99:9)
God is spirit. (John 4:24)
God is light. (1 John 1:5)
God is love. (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16)
(source)

(September 21, 2011 at 3:36 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: You propose this god thingy created me. It has the power to bridge the gap - it has to make the first move.

And he did.. the sacrifice is a done deal.

god isn't light though... That is pretty much fact...

LOL

That pretty much sums it up for a lot of people Frankiej

"God is [insert platitude here]".......

Evidence that god is?

(September 21, 2011 at 5:21 am)FutureAndAHope Wrote: Hi Guys seems like you are suggesting there is no proof any where of Gods existance. i.e. God does nothing, so you should not believe in God seems to be the common thread. However I will bring up this site that I have mentioned else where it shows 100% verfiable cases of divine healing http://www.wcdn.org/wcdn_eng/case/divine_case_e.asp. I.e. Christians prayed and God answered, according to what is written in the bible this is possible today.

Needed to go back 30 posts again to find you.

I see many flying kudos being exchanged

Dose your father in heaven give rewards like angel wings to Christains like they do here with kudos to atheist on this Atheist forum?

(September 21, 2011 at 4:09 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Interesting. When you say 'indoctrinated'.. do you mean you were raised into it then?

Correct.

Quote:Chaos is also beautiful.

Strictly speaking I'm talking about cause and effect rather than randomness, which more often than not has potentially disastrous and far-reaching results.

Quote:There is no greater purpose than love.

You're referring to "The Great Comission" if I'm not mistaken so your 'purpose' then is actually to preach the news of Jesus to all nations. Your purpose is to serve god, not be loved. Who do you think you are? ^_^ I don't believe any of it is true though. You may proceed to wipe the dust from your feet, curse me, and move onto the next town.

Quote:It's not long distance, it's in your face.

Doubtful, unless you think a PC monitor is god. Tell me frodo are you a Pantheist?

Quote:Never say never.

Never is a fact. Never is what cannot occur at no time in past, present or future. Never is also an undeniable eventuality. For example, the original WTC will never rebuild itself back to the way it was. It’s gone forever. So long as my cognitive faculties and ability to rationalise is not compromised I will never love your god concept. You'd think a hyper-intelligent deity would have appreciated the consequences of creating a reality where it was possible that his creation can, and would, reject him. Yet if he exists then he obviously proceeded with it anyway, aware of the risks involved. The lost of several billion souls is worthwhile if it means a few hundred thousand will love him no?

“The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.” (Gen 6:6)

Quote:Keep an open mind: Be skeptical - that includes your own position on things.

Be skeptical of skepticism? No, I'm not convinced or impressed by talk of fallibilism or anti-skepticism. Disbelief on any claim until sufficient evidence arrives to prove true is the default position.

Quote:There is always potential, as long as you have the capacity to think. No one is lost, even at death.

On the contrary, biological death is when I'm lost forever. Its the permanent cessation of all of my biological functions, which includes all ongoing brain activity. When I'm dead I won't even know I was ever alive to start with.

Quote:No matter what your world view, you can look at things positively and negatively. Sometimes so much shit happens it's hard to see clear of that... I know I'm bad for that.

Wait now, I'm not really addressing worldviews at the moment. I will however have a negative outlook on the prospect of some deity creating me for its own purpose. To be dragged into this world just for its own glorification. How dare it. How selfishly cruel is this higher being? At the risk of shame, regret and even eventual loss of love my parents at least have the decency to let me choose my own purpose, my own way in life. I am my own master. I belong to no one, especially not magic man, whether he's real or not.

Quote:Equivical biblical statements about God:
God is one. (Deut. 6:4, Romans 3:30, Galatians 3:20, James 2:19)
God is holy. (Psalm 99:9)
God is spirit. (John 4:24)
God is light. (1 John 1:5)
God is love. (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16)
(source)

Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"
Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."
Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."
Exodus 20:4-5 “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God”
Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."
Isaiah 45: 7 “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”
Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."

Not a very nice deity is he? I've seen a jar of angry wasps look happier.

Quote:And he did.. the sacrifice is a done deal.

I'm not accepting a sacrifice, either your tribal god mans up and accepts he can make mistakes just like everyone else and *forgives his creation* without all this bloodshed and punishment, or he politely go and fuck off.
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him," (John 3:36).
*sigh* He displays a childish wrath and contempt for some wee little mortals on a tiny insignificant little planet not obeying him? Wow your god concept is petty-minded and a megalomaniac as well. I don’t want that -thing- anywhere in my life.

(September 22, 2011 at 1:47 am)Castle Wrote: Dose your father in heaven give rewards like angel wings to Christains like they do here with kudos to atheist on this Atheist forum?

God is not my father, or mother.

(September 21, 2011 at 4:15 pm)frankiej Wrote: god isn't light though... That is pretty much fact...

GodLitetm

Now even more vacuous!!!!!!
Available in supermarkets and service stations everybloody where.

I have to laugh...

"Ask the Christian" is the name of this thread...and I can't help but think "Why?? The dead bog doesn't know anything... so why ask??"

Because xtians are past masters at making shit up as they go.