(September 27, 2018 at 11:50 am)CapnAwesome Wrote: I don't think people are not tipping in Spain because they have health care. Really people are not that deep thinking. I also don't think there was tipping in those countries before they got universal health care. So that explanation is quite a stretch.

There are still tons of non-tipping cultures with lower wages than the us you'd have to explain. Since the us actually has fairly high wages except compared to a very very small amount of countries, the explanation falls well short. Tipping is just cultural. Every culture has a different tipping custom. I don't see much of a pattern to it.

That wasn't my point. My point was, servers in Spain don't need tips because they make enough to survive. I get that tipping is cultural, I don't think I argued against that. My argument was the state of tipping in the US is due to owners not paying their staff enough. Tipping probably started out as a nice way to reward your server, but owners see it as a way to avoid paying their staff, and as long as the tipping culture continues, owners can get away with paying their staff less than a standard minimum wage.

Quote:Not to mention I'd much rather get a tipped job in the us than the flat minimum wage in most European countries. The minimum wage in Europe isn't all that special and in some countries is awful. It's better in the west coast of America for sure plus you get tips.

You're ignoring the fact that servers in other countries aren't always paid minimum wage. A quick Google says that minimum wage in Spain 858.55 euros a month. Another Google suggests the average wage of a waiter (server) in Spain is 1,338 euros a month.

I tip 20-25% because I'd pay a lot more than that to have someone else do the shopping, cooking, serving, and clean up.

(September 27, 2018 at 12:11 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I tip 20-25% because I'd pay a lot more than that to have someone else do the shopping, cooking, serving, and clean up.

I tip about that much, too.  Sometimes more, only because I suck at math.

(September 27, 2018 at 12:13 pm)Kit Wrote:

(September 27, 2018 at 12:11 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I tip 20-25% because I'd pay a lot more than that to have someone else do the shopping, cooking, serving, and clean up.

I tip about that much, too.  Sometimes more, only because I suck at math.

I broke my math bone when I was in the 5th grade, and it never healed properly. Now my phone has one of them adding machine things. (Not "abacus", something else.)

(September 27, 2018 at 12:15 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I broke my math bone when I was in the 5th grade, and it never healed properly. Now my phone has one of them adding machine things. (Not "abacus", something else.)

I tip what I personally feel is right, and it always ends up being more than what is considered appropriate.

One day after a restaurant experience, I learned through my phone that I tipped way more than I should have. Oh well, that server deserved it.

(September 27, 2018 at 12:18 pm)Kit Wrote:

(September 27, 2018 at 12:15 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I broke my math bone when I was in the 5th grade, and it never healed properly. Now my phone has one of them adding machine things. (Not "abacus", something else.)

I tip what I personally feel is right, and it always ends up being more than what is considered appropriate.

One day after a restaurant experience, I learned through my phone that I tipped way more than I should have.  Oh well, that server deserved it.

I have a lot of fun with tipping in non-US locations. Mostly watching Americans try to figure out how much tip is appropriate. I don't know if they're afraid they'll get shot if they do it wrong or they don't know how many dollars are in a pound. I cheat, I look it before going.

(September 27, 2018 at 12:04 pm)Tiberius Wrote:

(September 27, 2018 at 11:50 am)CapnAwesome Wrote: I don't think people are not tipping in Spain because they have health care. Really people are not that deep thinking. I also don't think there was tipping in those countries before they got universal health care. So that explanation is quite a stretch.

There are still tons of non-tipping cultures with lower wages than the us you'd have to explain. Since the us actually has fairly high wages except compared to a very very small amount of countries, the explanation falls well short. Tipping is just cultural. Every culture has a different tipping custom. I don't see much of a pattern to it.

That wasn't my point. My point was, servers in Spain don't need tips because they make enough to survive. I get that tipping is cultural, I don't think I argued against that. My argument was the state of tipping in the US is due to owners not paying their staff enough. Tipping probably started out as a nice way to reward your server, but owners see it as a way to avoid paying their staff, and as long as the tipping culture continues, owners can get away with paying their staff less than a standard minimum wage.

Quote:Not to mention I'd much rather get a tipped job in the us than the flat minimum wage in most European countries. The minimum wage in Europe isn't all that special and in some countries is awful. It's better in the west coast of America for sure plus you get tips.

You're ignoring the fact that servers in other countries aren't always paid minimum wage. A quick Google says that minimum wage in Spain 858.55 euros a month. Another Google suggests the average wage of a waiter (server) in Spain is 1,338 euros a month.

In the US waiters aren't always paid the minimum wage either. I'm not. So I don't get your point about what that has to do with tipping. There seems to be plenty of other countries that fit the criteria you've set forth for tipping yet don't have them.

Also, I almost forgot, Canada has the same tipping culture as the US. So that's a pretty good sign that it's a cultural thing and not a by product of US laws.

I think it's just part of our culture for historical reasons. If we didn't have it you'd just pay more for your food and waiters would make a higher wage. So I would argue that tipping isn't a result of low wages for waiters, but low wages for waiters is because the customer directly pays part of their salary rather than in Europe where the customer indirectly pays it through high prices.

I don't really see the superiority of either system. (Edit: actually I'd say the US system is slightly better. For one, I think if you can make more. Two, you definitely have better customer service in the US)

Edit: it's always nice having a conversation with you on here, by the way. It's like, a refreshing break from all the over emotions. Plus I think you are basically the only other person who researches and learns while they are posting, which is cool.

I’ll may get flak for this, but I don’t necessarily tip based on percentage. I don’t see that the price of what I ordered has any reflection on what was done. I look at what was ordered (how many courses or if I’m drinking beer), how good the service was (there when I needed something) and weigh it against how busy they are. Someone who is working their ass off, may get a better tip, then another whom I happened to order something more expensive from. Or if they are really busy, and I still get great service, then I will often tip more.

There have been some reports of tips not going to the staff that you were intending them to go to. Some tips get put in a pool of money along with other tips and then shared amoungst all staff: in theory this could be good but I remember one person on the radio saying the shared money was used for a night out which they were unable to to attend and a thus never saw there share of the money.

Even worse is some managers have taking the tip money for themselves. Sometimes the establishments have a policy to take tip money from employees and it is never seen again. Some peple are so selfish and greedy.

If you don't like tips move to Japan where tiling is considered rude. Then again Japanese society is incredibly racist so I wouldn't recommend it! (just ask any Koreans or so-called "Hafu" living in Japan).


It's a real shame that most service sector workers do not have access to collective bargaining. We need strong labour unions to help these workers achieve better pay and conditions. Then maybe they don't need to be so reliant on tips.

(September 28, 2018 at 10:17 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I’ll may get flak for this, but I don’t necessarily tip based on percentage.  I don’t see that the price of what I ordered has any reflection on what was done. I look at what was ordered (how many courses or if I’m drinking beer), how good the service was (there when I needed something) and weigh it against how busy they are. Someone who is working their ass off, may get a better tip, then another whom I happened to order something more expensive from. Or if they are really busy, and I still get great service, then I will often tip more.

Many places encourage their servers to sell food. In addition, servers are taxed based on their end-of-night ticket. I see where you are coming from, RR, but if you pay a lot of money for a meal, you ought to consider tipping higher too because your server is getting taxed based on what you spend.