(September 30, 2018 at 5:03 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote:

(September 26, 2018 at 6:30 am)Little Rik Wrote: 1)These guys keep on claiming that science back them up.
2)They say..........when we die is all over.
3)They see a body so they come to the conclusion that not only the body is gone but the consciousness as well is gone.
4)All science knows is that the body is gone and that's it.
5)Physical science is limited in studying physical phenomenal.
6)It just can not go over the border and understand consciousness however these guys come to the wrong conclusion that it can without providing a rag of evidence.
Here is where I challenge them.
i challenge them to provide evidence.
In turn they laugh at me thinking that they are very smart and clever.
In reality they only fool themselves and procrastinate their total ignorance.  

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Hello again!

Congrats on getting a good grasp of English.

Sorry for adding 'Points'/'Numbers' to your reply but I find it's easier to keep track of what I'm replying too.

1) Okay... Well, I'll just have to let people keep replying for themselves on this matter.
2) *Nods* From my understanding (Limited) of our reality I too would agree that once a person (The whole body, kit and ka-boodle) stops working then, yes, there is "No more of that perosn" in any way, shape or form.
3) *Nods* I agree. The body/mind is inseperable from the conciousness. You can't have a consciousness without a body/mind. HOWever, you CAn have a body/mind without a consciousness.
4) Uhm.. I disagree with your statement/opinionhere as per my previous replies.
5) *Nods* Given a lay-man's use of the term/word 'Physical' I can agree with this comment. Though I think (Am completely guessing as to your thoughts) when you type' Physical' you mean "Everything" that IS existence, right? From rocks, oceans and sky/atmosphere to Suns/stars, space, sotrms, electricity, photons etc?
6) I... don't see any 'Boarder'? We can talk to people when they are awake. We can MRI people when they are asleep. We can (And I would add the caveate of 'Indirectly') interact with each other's 'Consciousness' via such things.

I hope my replies make sense.

I would posit a question to yourself Little Rik.

What happens to people's 'Consciousness' when they have suffered sever brain/grey matter trauma/injury?
Why do people who've suffered trauma to their physical brain ALSO suffer reduction/damage to their coscniousness?

Much cheers.

Not at work.

When you say............The body/mind is inseperable (inseparable) from the conciousness (consciousness)...........you make a clear statement which leave no space for if or but.
Can you please provide evidence?  

Regarding to your questions to me here is my answer.
Consciousness is so to speak stuck in a body-brain until death occur.
That means that when the body-brain suffer in any way also the consciousness suffer.
It is like when you travel in your vehicle and the vehicle doesn't work or work in part then you will have to put up with going slow or not going at all.  

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(September 29, 2018 at 11:56 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(September 29, 2018 at 11:02 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: In regards to the poster 'Little Rik'?

English is not their native language?

If I'm not mistaken, he's from Italy.  I believe he's acknowledge once or twice that English is not his first language.  His first language would be 'bullshit'.

Oh, well yog.

Considering that my English is so bad why don't you teach me English?

In return I can teach how to get out the mental sewer in which you find so difficult to get out.

DEAL?

At work.

Uhm.... my point was that, so far and to date, there has/have been no, nix, nadda, none, zero, ziltch complete absence of ANY non-physical conciousness(-s).

I can not point to something that does not seem to exist.

My position is that the thing we are discussing, 'Consciousness', only exists within functioning neural networks.

I can point to a myriad examples of functioning neural networks that exhibit consciousness.

My veiw of the world is that consciousness ONLY exists within such structures.

IF you think any consciousness(-s) exist independant/with OUT a neural network, then that's the ball you're playing on your side of the court.

Cheers.

(September 29, 2018 at 8:06 pm)chimp3 Wrote:

(September 29, 2018 at 10:37 am)Little Rik Wrote: Look chimp.  
Let us make a deal.
What about if I tell God that the debt should be paid later on in life?

What about when people are 30 or 40 years old rather than 9 years old?
Would that make you happy?

Oh, by the way.
Suppose you run a bank.
Would you like if people refuse to pay back the money that you lent them?
Would you let them go with the money?
Or what about if someone rape and kill your daughter?
Would you really do nothing about?
Really?  

I think rape victims are innocent victims. You are one sick motherfucker!

You are not answering the question chimp

Let me put it in a simple way.
Should people pay their debts or not?  

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(September 30, 2018 at 9:55 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: At work.

Uhm.... my point was that, so far and to date, there has/have been no, nix, nadda, none, zero, ziltch complete absence of ANY non-physical conciousness(-s).

I can not point to something that does not seem to exist.

My position is that the thing we are discussing, 'Consciousness', only exists within functioning neural networks.

I can point to a myriad examples of functioning neural networks that exhibit consciousness.

My veiw of the world is that consciousness ONLY exists within such structures.

IF you think any consciousness(-s) exist independant/with OUT a neural network, then that's the ball you're playing on your side of the court.

Cheers.

http://www.nderf.org/Archives/exceptional.html




Cheers.  

(September 30, 2018 at 9:40 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(September 29, 2018 at 11:56 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: If I'm not mistaken, he's from Italy.  I believe he's acknowledge once or twice that English is not his first language.  His first language would be 'bullshit'.

Oh, well yog.

Considering that my English is so bad why don't you teach me English?

In return I can teach how to get out the mental sewer in which you find so difficult to get out.

DEAL?

Is this another one of your 'observations' that isn't needlessly hostile or needlessly insulting in any way? Please. I'd really like your answer. I need a good laugh.

(September 30, 2018 at 10:01 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(September 29, 2018 at 8:06 pm)chimp3 Wrote: I think rape victims are innocent victims. You are one sick motherfucker!

You are not answering the question chimp

Let me put it in a simple way.
Should people pay their debts or not?  

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So..a nine year old child that is raped and murdered is paying a debt?

At work.

?

I am sorry but I do not find anecdotal stories worth much more than a good/uplifting read.

That people experience trauma and some survive to write (You will note that they are all, at the time of recounting their tales both physical and alive?) is not new or really news worthy.

*Though the harrowing tales of survival they tell most certainly are.

Again, what I asked for, from your side of the cort, was evidence of/for NON-physical consciousness.

On my side of the court I can simply point to the person in the mirror or on the other side of the room as a physical ONLY consciousness.

Much cheers.

Lil'Rik is really a NDE apologist. The 'Near' part should suffice to explain the phenomena to those that understand neuroscience.

(September 29, 2018 at 6:37 pm)unfogged Wrote:

(September 29, 2018 at 9:29 am)Little Rik Wrote: Wrong again unfog.

There is zero evidence that the consciousness die when the body die and there is zero evidence that the two are inseparable for ever.

In order to believe that consciousness survives the death of the body we'd need evidence for that happening or, at the very least, evidence for a mechanism that would make it possible.  Since we have none, and we have plenty of evidence that consciousness is tied to the brain there is only one reasonable conclusion at this point.

If you expect evidence from physical science you will wait for ever and ever.
Consciousness is an abstract entity which is outside the physical reality therefore impossible to understand in a physical way but if you are an attentive scholar in what make sense so to speak then you will understand that evolution is there for a reason which is to lead life to a goal.
On the other hand you can keep on doing nothing hoping that science one day in the future will explain you how the whole system works.
In the meantime I suggest you the same link that I just gave to  Peebo-Thuhlu.

http://www.nderf.org/Archives/exceptional.html

Quote:As you are connected to your vehicle when you drive you also are free to terminate this connection when you wish.

Quote:Well, there's your problem.  I am in physical contact with my vehicle but I am not connected to it.  Please demonstrate the "you" that is separate from your physical brian and show that it can be disconnected and remain intact.  I'll wait.

There is problem unfogg.
We are not the one who establish these connections.
Of course we can terminate the connection via a suicide but most people terminate the connection when their body die.
As far as remain intact in a way it does but with a big IF.
If for intact we mean that it never die then yes but if for intact we mean that it was with the previous awareness then no.
Why should it be considering that the awareness can increase or decrease according to our achievement or our bad life?

Quote:After million years that evolution take us from lower form of life to what we are now a sudden stop and death of our evolution before we reach the goal of life does not make any sense.
Human evolution can not possibly be the end of total evolution.
There is still a lot to learn and a lot to do to reach peace of mind and total happiness.
Only fools think that what we have achieve so far is enough.  

Quote:Wow.  An utter lack of understanding about evolution as well.  Evolution has no goal.

That is a typical atheist dogma that prevent a person to understand how the system works.
Why on earth there is evolution if there is no goal?
WHY?

Quote:I am not really interested what other people think of spirituality.
To me the word simply means to unearth or bring to light what lies in the subconscious mind.

Quote:Fine, but that's not what others seem to mean when they say it.  Calling that spirituality just muddies the conversation.  If I hadn't asked for your definition I never would have guessed that that is what you mean.

Quote:You yourself must have noticed that after thinking and thinking in many cases the solution to your problem pop up.
Where you think it pop up from other than from your subconscious mind.

Quote:Yes, but based on subconscious evaluation of the evidence I already have.  The fact that the conscious mind does not have access to the details of the operation of the subconscious doesn't make what is happening any less a natural function of a working brain.

What is the point in having a fortune when you can not use it?
Intelligent people use what is theirs.
Fools on the other hand do not.  

Quote:Spirituality is an intelligent way to allow the coming of these solution to emerge a lot lot easier than struggle all the time beside solutions also means peace of mind and bliss.    

Quote:Deepak would be proud; that's gibberish.

Gibberish that one day you will turn into craftiness.

Quote:Before to learn you need a system of knowledge unless you are a cave man that discover the fire by pure chance.
Yoga is a knowledge that allow you to learn.  

Quote:You need evidence and the ability to reason;  that result in knowledge.  "Yoga is a knowledge" is just more gibberish.  I gather that English is not your first language so that may be part of the problem but what you are saying simply does not make any sense.

You surely need ........the ability to reason.........but you also need a good teacher.
Evidence will come later.  

Quote:Yours is the way of the cave man that after ages and ages discover the fire by pure chance.

I on the other hand put my trust in a real teacher that has been there and done that in order to arrive to the goal of life.
In this way I benefit from his knowledge so I don't have to struggle to find my way to the finish line of total evolution.  

Quote:I tried, but I think it is quite apparent that we can not have any meaningful conversation.  If you want to try explaining what you mean you need to do so in terms of things that are real.  I don't deal in deepities.

Consciousness is real but we can not see it, touch it smell it, taste it and so on however we can grasp it in a total different way but I suppose it would be too difficult for you to understand.  

At work.

I'll just mention again that Little Rik's link goes to people recounting their experiences. People who are very much both alive as well as very much physical.

My question to Little Rik, given the tail end of their post, is that;

IF there is NO interaction (You state there's no touching, tasting etc) then exactly HOW does said consciousness interact back the other way?

If we can not interact with it. How does it interact with us?

Cheers.

(September 30, 2018 at 10:13 am)chimp3 Wrote:

(September 30, 2018 at 10:01 am)Little Rik Wrote: You are not answering the question chimp

Let me put it in a simple way.
Should people pay their debts or not?  

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So..a nine year old child that is raped and murdered is paying a debt?

You still are not answering the question.


Answer first so from there we can start to see all the rest.