@Abbadon_ire

I don't know how to reply in-line when quotes are threaded this deeply, so I'll just try here. 

"Be warned. Believers who you know will actively exploit that. It is just one more shitty thing believers do."

Yes, I am very vulnerable right now. Thankfully, other than a few close secular friends, nobody else knows. Theists would LOVE this anxiety. It's the God-shaped vacuum and all of that. 

As far as recommending stuff that helped you get through the existential crisis, I would love to hear it.

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(October 13, 2018 at 6:17 pm)CarveTheFive Wrote: If you’re afraid of hell you must believe in hell and if you believe in hell youre not an atheist.

No, I don't believe in Hell, so your conclusion on this subject is incorrect.

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(October 13, 2018 at 6:33 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(October 13, 2018 at 6:17 pm)CarveTheFive Wrote: If you’re afraid of hell you must believe in hell and if you believe in hell youre not an atheist.

I'd like to dispute this remark. Just because you've come to a logical conclusion about God's nonexistence doesn't mean you can immediately erase years of indoctrination... stuff that's engrained... often at an emotional level.

If you find out that a romantic partner (with whom you were seriously involved) is a backstabbing, two-timing bitch, you don't then immediately overcome all the feelings/hopes/dreams that were associated with her. It's a process. (Especially considering the tactics some religious organizations use to instill such beliefs in the first place.)

This is so true. An example of this is that when I was a child I was terrified of the Rapture taking place and my being left behind while my whole family was taken to Heaven. If I was separated from my mom longer than expected, I'd start to become more and more terrified that the Rapture had happened. Now I'm in a relationship with an atheist man. However, when he takes longer than expected, I get this fear that the Rapture has happened. It makes ZERO sense. Even if I believed in the Rapture, as an atheist he wouldn't be raptured, so it's an example of not believing in something but having the fear persist.

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(October 13, 2018 at 6:59 pm)CarveTheFive Wrote: I’m not in the school of we control our beliefs

If you believe in hell why torture yourself trying to pretend you don’t?

Maybe part of your brain can believe and another part doesn’t...

All I know is I’m not afraid of things I don’t believe in. That certainly includes hell.

But on the other hand I don’t think atheism is some kind of panacea. Why try to force yourself into being something you’re not?

I don't believe in Hell. Frankly, your comments sound a lot like those from Christians who tell atheists that they really DO believe in God but are just angry with him or rejecting him. If you're atheist, you know there's simply no way to reply to belief that's absurd or that you know isn't true. That's how I feel about your statements that state that I must really believe in Hell. You don't get it, so why should anyone waste their time trying to get you to understand? 

You know, I chose the title of this thread carefully, yet you still missed the "can you help?" part. 

Regarding your comment about atheism not being some kind of panacea, you've got to be kidding! There's no relief in the realization that what I've believed in my whole life and the decisions I've made because of that belief was wrong all along. There's no relief in the realization that I'm not immortal nor is any other loved one in my life. Life would be much easier if I could still believe in God. The delusion was a comfort sometimes. However, once you realize Santa isn't real, you can't force yourself to believe again.

You said, "Why try to force yourself into being something you're not?" There are many stupid assumptions built into this question. Again, there's no force: I simply don't believe anymore. I find no credible evidence for a belief in God, which means I am an atheist. Get it? 

It really sounds like you're trolling or you simply want to kick someone who is vulnerable. I asked for HELP, not to have some fuckwit try to argue that I'm really still a believer. Please quit hijacking my thread.

Hi Dragonfly,

I'm sorry you are experiencing so much suffering.  As I mentioned in your intro post, I also decoverted as an adult, around age 33.  I'm 43 now, so hopefully I can help give you a little perspective.

Fear of Hell - I never suffered this even as a Christian, perhaps because the Catholic order run church (Franciscan) I attended never put any emphasis on it.  All the same, I think the advice I'll supply further down might help you with this.

Existential angst/crisis - I completely understand our feelings on this.  I have gone through almost exactly what you describe.  My suggestion here is to look into Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (it's for people with BPD or drug addiction, which I don't have) but that's irrelevant.  IF the full therapy is too much to handle, I suggest looking into the part called Radical Acceptance.  It has helped me immensely, and I think it would be helpful for anyone struggling to accept or unhappy with their own reality. 

Fear of dying - Yep, I have this too.  I think most atheists do fear dying, the process, the suffering part, but don't fear death afterwards, because they can't experience suffering once they cease to exist.  I do fear that nothingness also, the ceasing to exist, and when I feel pangs of that fear, it is radical acceptance that I turn to.

I may get shit on here for going into this, but if what you are seeking is a community that will support your emotional needs but not feed you woo, look into Secular Taoism, or even Buddhism.  There are likely temples in your area.  These can vary, some may include quite a bit of "woo", while many temples in the western world really are just ritualized meditation and life philosophy.  Try and find someplace without much of the woo, or just filter it out yourself.
If you would like to try before you buy, so to speak, or don't want to go in person right away, check out this online Taoist temple.  

Best of luck to you on this difficult journey.  You can do it!

Sport. It helps mind and body to heal. And regarding sport, doctors suggest to breath through nose during the exercise for optimal performance.

"The Exercise Prescription for Depression, Anxiety, and Stress. Everyone knows that regular exercise is good for the body. But exercise is also one of the most effective ways to improve your mental health. ... It also relieves stress, improves memory, helps you sleep better, and boosts overall mood".



Matt Dillahunty spend around 25 years in fundamentalist christian religion. He has many vids on ytube where he answers every possible question regarding religion.

I have no fear of death. It's inevitable. The way I'm going to die though, that may be cause for concern.

(October 13, 2018 at 9:06 pm)CarveTheFive Wrote:

(October 13, 2018 at 7:47 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: Yay, me too. So what. You are acting like a child. That may seem to you to be an insult, but it isn't. What keeps me feeling young is indulging my inner child. The difference between us is that I do not feel any need to bully the shit out of other people.

Your journey is not his journey. Why you insist upon that being so is anyone's guess. My guess is that you have issues.

Jealous much? I'm an atheist some 40 years, but I am not a dick about it. You seem to be determined to be a dick about it.
why?

Fukkem. Why should I care about those blokes? They can all go die in an existential fire for all I care. Why do you care about them?

Why are you then trying your hardest to discourage anyone from leaving the "faith"?

The evidence is otherwise and you now have an evidential mountain to climb. Fact is, I think you are a god-bothering wolf in sheep's clothing. Pretending to be a militant atheist in order to herd your flock back into the fold of superstitious nonsense.

Am I wrong? Demonstrate that I am.

You’re fucking weird-o dude

You are so far in the theist closet you can see fucking Narnia.

hehehehehehehe.

(October 14, 2018 at 2:45 am)Dragonfly Wrote: @Abbadon_ire

I don't know how to reply in-line when quotes are threaded this deeply, so I'll just try here. 

"Be warned. Believers who you know will actively exploit that. It is just one more shitty thing believers do."

Yes, I am very vulnerable right now. Thankfully, other than a few close secular friends, nobody else knows. Theists would LOVE this anxiety. It's the God-shaped vacuum and all of that. 

As far as recommending stuff that helped you get through the existential crisis, I would love to hear it.

40 years on, I still occasionally get that existential dread. That is normal. Such nonsense has been embedded in your head over the course of years. Personally, when I feel such things, I simply stop and ask "Wait just a damn minute...What?". A few moments quiet reflection reveals the Pavlovian response for exactly what it is. A conditioned response. It has been beaten into your head so that it becomes an instant knee-jerk response, particularly under stress.

My best advice is that when such occurs, just stop and think in a serene pool of rational thought. Ask yourself why are you entertaining such irrational thoughts. You will quickly find that this is a conditioned response, AND THEY DID IT PURPOSEFULLY TO YOU.

And you are not alone. Never think you are alone.

As for the other clown? Clowns do clown stuff, who would have thunk.

(October 14, 2018 at 1:14 am)Dragonfly Wrote: I'm 50 as well. I didn't know Sufi mysticism had a Hell. Sad that your process took several years. I wish I had work as a distraction, but I am off work due to health problems. I need to find some kind of thing that will be a passion and a distraction from all of this, but I'm still searching for it. The quoted part I colored blue really grabbed me. You're right--they're habits! They're patterns of thought like grooves on an old record. "I stuck by what I considered true no matter what my fears said." I really want to be able to say this. I added this quote to the desktop of my computer where I'll see it frequently. Thank you.

I was 50 when I became an atheist. Now I'm almost 63.

The Sufi orders all recognize the validity of basic Islamic teachings. Though they do have their own liberal interpretations of those ideas, I still worried that I was bound for hell when I abandoned my studies.

Now I'm not worried. I've learned so much more about how consciousness is brain-dependent that I consider any afterlife scheme to be impossible.

Hi, Dragonfly!

I didn't come out as an atheist until I was in my 30's, having overcome 12½ years of Roman Catholic indoctrination through years of deep introspection and comparative religious study. I too had to deal with residual fears of hell or other forms of divine retribution. One thing that helped immensely was the support of fellow atheists. I joined American Atheists in 1982. You should check the internet for atheist groups in your area.

I fear dying too. I simply don't fear fictional mythological beings. I wasn't around 4 billion years ago, and I don't fear my pre life either.

I do fear prolong pain. I couldn't fight on a battlefield. I do fear my loved ones missing me and me missing my loved ones. But no, there is no hell to burn in just like there is no Darth Vader who can telepathically choke me to death.

Fear of dying is normal, it is why we look both ways crossing the street. Mortality is a hard thing to face, but it is the final reality for everyone. But there is no sky hero or ground villain placing bets on the neurons in your brain in some grand casino as if you were their poker chip.