(October 21, 2018 at 11:24 am)Deesse23 Wrote: 24 pages, and all of this because his god is such a shitty communicator.

Rather, due to the enviers being stubborn listeners. That, and people preferring the falsehood implanted by sorcery to the bright signs that God clarifies and hardly giving Satan and his forces a fight.

25 pages, and your god still sucks at writing.

There are as many interpretations of your beloved verses around as people. Thats why you Muslims still kill each other over it. So stop pretending everybody but you is too stupid to understand. You arent the first zealot of any religion around proclaiming that he knows what his god (who sucks at writing) really was trying to tell us. This shit is as old as religion. So please dont insult my intellect by insinuating that i am stupid enough to buy your shit.

You can read it heedlessly, I am just showing how CLEAR it has ALWAYS BEEN.

The fact, is, if people see it as unclear, it's what it explains, they have a disease in their hearts seek the unclear from it by imposing their own interpretations on it, and Satan misleads when people don't built foundations on the best of it which it's clear signs and bright proofs.

The fact people over all don't see the family of the reminder and the theme of it in Quran, is akin to Queen Sheba not seeing that the whole throne was hers, till she noticed one thing that showed it had to be her throne. Nothing natural about it but rather the devils of Humans and Jinn, the evil sorcerers try to blind people and have been successful so far.

The whole Quran goes on and one about the Mastery and Position of the chosen Households, and the clear implication along with clear designations of them, is that the family of Mohammad is one of them and not only that, but the best course/way brought out for humanity.

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(January 13, 2018 at 10:03 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Here's the thing, though, MK.

You say the knowledge is too complicated for us.  Then why send us the knowledge in the first place?

Sorry I missed this. Knowledge is layered in grades. What I'm presenting so far is just scratching the surface.

(October 21, 2018 at 1:22 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: You can read it heedlessly,  I am just showing how CLEAR it has ALWAYS BEEN.

It would be clear if it wasn't localized.
It would be clear if EVERYONE got the same message.
It would be clear if there were no chosen ones, no messengers, no special people.

As long as any system parades special people, those people have power, that power is what drives those people to "become" messengers. The power to have their "philosophy" turned into religion and imposed upon millions... Where you put a god, I see only people doing what people have always done.

(October 21, 2018 at 1:22 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: You can read it heedlessly,  I am just showing how CLEAR it has ALWAYS BEEN.

No, it hasnt. If it had been clear all the time , then people would have understood it.....all the time.  
Seriously: How hard is this to understand? Your religion sucked the most basic reasoning out of your mind.

I am talking about how clear it is as far as this issue goes. I am not going to discuss other issues but how to interpret 42:23 in light of other verses in Quran as discussed in the OP.

While it's true many people want to manipulate people, God is best suited to guide them and can verify the truth with his words, living instance of his word brought to life, like Jesus and like the family of Aaron and like the family of Mohammad and Ali.

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(October 21, 2018 at 2:23 pm)Deesse23 Wrote:

(October 21, 2018 at 1:22 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: You can read it heedlessly,  I am just showing how CLEAR it has ALWAYS BEEN.

No, it hasnt. If it had been clear all the time , then people would have understood it.....all the time.  
Seriously: How hard is this to understand? Your religion sucked the most basic reasoning out of your mind.  

This is exactly what I'm proving is not the case.  Despite how clear it is, people misunderstand, due to something more sinister and unnatural in the world.

(October 21, 2018 at 1:04 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(October 21, 2018 at 11:24 am)Deesse23 Wrote: 24 pages, and all of this because his god is such a shitty communicator.

Rather, due to the enviers being stubborn listeners. That, and people preferring the falsehood implanted by sorcery to the bright signs that God clarifies and hardly giving Satan and his forces a fight.

"And they shall stand in despair before the white cliffs of the world, and shall chant from their empty tomes in vain, for their words are nothing! And Erú shall prevail against His enemies and they shall be cast into the Void, for their enchantments are naught and their gods are helpless before Him." (The Silmarillion, 17:82)

The word Ummatan can mean course. For example:

http://www.alquranenglish.com/quran-sura...ranslation

There the word translated to course or way or religion there is ummatan

The beginning of verse 7:160 thus can be translated as:


And we split them into twelve courses, as branches.....

What was split into twelve courses, the pathway after Moses:

And from the people of Moses is a course that guide by truth it and by it they establish justice.

Thus following the light brought down with the Prophet in the previous verses in this context is the Ali and the Imams from his offspring.

5:12 also reminds the covenant with respect to Twelve Captains while later affirms the covenant was respect with Messengers 5:70 and else where we see the salvation is by the name of God is it's sailing and anchoring, and emphasizes similarly from who God has created is a course that guide by the truth and to call God by the beautiful names as they as they belong to him.

The word I translated as branches often get's translated as tribes, but it's a similitude for grandchildren linking back to their root, and so it can mean that, but it can also mean, the 12 Successors are all branches off the same tree in that respect, rooted in the guidance of the founder.

As for the word Captain, the Quran talks about ships and also mentions that humans will be called with a witness from themselves, a leader, and a driver.... that every soul will come with it a driver and witness.

Captain/leader/driver are synonymous in this respect, and else where Quran says "and for every people, there is a guide". With respect to 42:23, these verses are emphasizing on the structure of the family of Moses, so that people understand it and know the continuous path of it with Mohammad's family, and understand the household of Abraham was similar in this respect, and all Prophets had their respective households who were associated in the cause of the religion and it's guidance. This can be seen as how the chosen household is one path and one way from one perspective, but that you have to hold on to the leader and specific light God is channeling his guidance through "...and every people knew their drinking place..." and peace be upon who follows the guidance.

-or..it's a shameless rip of the twelve tribes song and dance.  Very unoriginal.