I think her point is you chose some rational to come up with your belief that the universe is eternal or came from nothing whatever your belief is.

(November 12, 2018 at 12:43 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 12:32 pm)Everena Wrote: We both know that a creator God exists, we both believe that the soul exists separately from the body, we both believe in reward/redemption and we both believe in eternal life.

You do both claim to know quite a lot about what cannot be verified by an impartial observer, and a little of that seems to agree alright.  But I think CDF believes he has arguments which should persuade an impartial, fair-minded person to adopt his beliefs.  I wonder if you share that belief?  

Another possible rift in your alliance is that I believe CDF feels himself to be compelled by the great commission to spread the word of the bible.  You don't share that do you, 'Rena?

I think becoming a Christian is a wonderful idea for anyone with even the slightest interest in it. I was a Christian for many years and it was a fantastic experience that strengthened my faith in God. There is a very good moral foundation there with the 10 commandments. If people even followed one of the ten commandments and stopped lying, it would change the whole entire world for the better.  And although I think it was tampered with by men, I also think it was probably inspired by prophets of God.

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(November 12, 2018 at 12:44 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 12:42 pm)Everena Wrote: So what you are both saying is that you could not make the choice to believe in God even if you wanted to. Is that correct? If so, what makes you so convinced that this entire universe and all conscious life could just come to be from nothing, out of thin air?

What makes you so convinced it didn’t?

It makes no logical sense.

(November 12, 2018 at 12:42 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 12:38 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: If you can't do it, then it's not a choice.  End of story.

So what you are both saying is that you could not make the choice to believe in God even if you wanted to. Is that correct? If so, what makes you so convinced that this entire universe and all conscious life could just come to be from nothing, out of thin air?

Since you yourself don't believe that the universe came from true nothing, I don't see that we have any disagreement about this. I could catalog numerous reasons why I don't think the universe came from this or that God, but I don't see the point until you explain why it would matter. As to whether the universe came from either true nothing or the type of nothing which Lawrence Krauss talks about, I'm open to both possibilities, but not decisively convinced of either. There are multiple scientific hypotheses as to where the universe came from, despite your bullshit denial that they are not part of science. So what's your point here?

(November 12, 2018 at 12:47 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 12:42 pm)Everena Wrote: So what you are both saying is that you could not make the choice to believe in God even if you wanted to. Is that correct? If so, what makes you so convinced that this entire universe and all conscious life could just come to be from nothing, out of thin air?

Wait, I thought that was what you and CDF believed, that God just whipped up some life forms out of thin air.  I think the position of those on the other side is life is just interesting chemistry.

Whipped up? Not even close. God is higher intelligence and higher intelligence is required in order for this entire universe to come to be.

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(November 12, 2018 at 12:49 pm)Kit Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 12:42 pm)Everena Wrote: So what you are both saying is that you could not make the choice to believe in God even if you wanted to. Is that correct? If so, what makes you so convinced that this entire universe and all conscious life could just come to be from nothing, out of thin air?

Are you familiar with the difference between honestly stating I don't know, until such a time that an empirically proven answer can be provided, versus the readily automatic answer of filling in the gaps of knowledge with god did it?

But we feel that we do know. I personally know beyond any and all doubt, so I am not going to pretend that I don't.

It's true your words^ but take the time and try to understand, people in error need to see guidance and reasoning. And if they see it, if their doubt was irrational, they may or may not leave it regardless.

Humans don't trust reasoning because most humans lead astray with using a bit of it only to confuse people and most people use it properly were is suits their desires and misuse it where it suits them.

That said, I'm liking your posts. They are promising....

(November 12, 2018 at 12:44 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 12:40 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: She doesn't recognize it but leaving certainty for irrational doubt and conjecture, can always happen to a human. She is not free of that danger, only Prophets and the chosen guides, and chosen ladies like Sarah and May are.

We all can let go of holding on to God otherwise, we aren't free from swerving and turning aside to misguidance and doors that lead astray!

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True.. all religions have that purpose except that religion from God which people are trying to equate at the same level of those man made sheep herding astray leading clergy worshiping religions.

Religions have also done an enormous amount of good in this world, in literally thousands of different ways.

And at least as large an amount of evil in at least as many ways.

Good moral foundation in the 10 suggestions?

Because that's what they are to mant Christians, suggestions.

There's more moral foundation to be found in the laws of Hammurabi. And they're older. And we have the original stone structure, too.

(November 12, 2018 at 12:53 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 12:47 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Wait, I thought that was what you and CDF believed, that God just whipped up some life forms out of thin air.  I think the position of those on the other side is life is just interesting chemistry.

Whipped up? Not even close. God is higher intelligence and higher intelligence is required in order for this entire universe to come to be.

"Whip up" .. "create", what verb do you prefer to refer to the linkage by which all that higher intelligence produced all the life we see?

(November 12, 2018 at 12:52 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 12:42 pm)Everena Wrote: So what you are both saying is that you could not make the choice to believe in God even if you wanted to. Is that correct? If so, what makes you so convinced that this entire universe and all conscious life could just come to be from nothing, out of thin air?

Since you yourself don't believe that the universe came from true nothing, I don't see that we have any disagreement about this.  I could catalog numerous reasons why I don't think the universe came from this or that God, but I don't see the point until you explain why it would matter.  As to whether the universe came from either true nothing or the type of nothing which Lawrence Krauss talks about, I'm open to both possibilities, but not decisively convinced of either.  There are multiple scientific hypotheses as to where the universe came from, despite your bullshit denial that they are not part of science.  So what's your point here?

Well.. 93% of the world is hypothesizing that higher intelligence was involved in the creation of this universe and no one is calling that science so......

(November 12, 2018 at 12:50 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 12:43 pm)Whateverist Wrote: You do both claim to know quite a lot about what cannot be verified by an impartial observer, and a little of that seems to agree alright.  But I think CDF believes he has arguments which should persuade an impartial, fair-minded person to adopt his beliefs.  I wonder if you share that belief?  

Another possible rift in your alliance is that I believe CDF feels himself to be compelled by the great commission to spread the word of the bible.  You don't share that do you, 'Rena?

I think becoming a Christian is a wonderful idea for anyone with even the slightest interest in it. I was a Christian for many years and it was a fantastic experience that strengthened my faith in God. There is a very good moral foundation there with the 10 commandments. If people even followed one of the ten commandments and stopped lying, it would change the whole entire world for the better.  And although I think it was tampered with by men, I also think it was probably inspired by prophets of God.

---

(November 12, 2018 at 12:44 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: What makes you so convinced it didn’t?

It makes no logical sense.

Do you have a degree in quantum physics? explain how your logic is up to tasks if you don’t even have an inkling of the nature of things that logic has to operate on?

You can know A+B=C without knowing what A,B and C is?