(November 13, 2018 at 3:13 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(November 13, 2018 at 3:10 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Or the Quran description of people who try to bring people down to their level of doubt rather then seeking to be lifted to a level of perception of certainty, better explains it.

That doesn't make any sense Mystic.  That doesn't in any way challenge my conclusion.  Being raised to a level of certainty is without merit unless that certainty is based on justifiable reasons, not simply egotistical conviction in one's own beliefs.

(November 13, 2018 at 3:01 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Your advice is stupid, as well as your belief that being certain is an indicator of anything beyond certainty, and perhaps, an irrationally inflated ego.

Anyway, we're not talking about Mohammed here, but lesser mortals whose certainty is eminently impeachable, such as Everena here.  Your advice, I repeat, is stupid.  Though I have no doubt that you follow it.  You have once again been led astray by ridiculously self-serving and flawed epistemology and arguments.  That which you didn't just pull from your ass, such as that honesty leads to truth or that certainty alone is any indication of truth.  You follow a flawed book because you follow flawed rules.

If you are correct, it would be bad advice. If Quran is correct, it would be good advice to those who reached certainty.

I trust and believe in her testimony.

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(November 13, 2018 at 3:12 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(November 13, 2018 at 2:59 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: As appealing as that is , I would emphasize to stick to your husband for life even if he remains Atheist.

Uh...obvious joke was obvious. 

I know, but I had to say that cause I'm shallow. 

(November 13, 2018 at 3:11 pm)Everena Wrote: As someone who has suffered through quite a bit of pain both as a child and as an adult, I would much rather have an explanation for the pain, rather than think it was just happening to me for no reason at all. And it has the benefit of a positive outcome as well.

Abused spouses have explanations for their pain and why they should stay and continue to be abused. They, too, are convinced doing so results in positive outcomes.

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(November 13, 2018 at 3:18 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If you are correct, it would be bad advice. If Quran is correct, it would be good advice to those who reached certainty.

If Quran is correct about what, Mystic? The only thing that counts is being correct in the matter of whether certainty is an indication of truth, the very issue at stake. Assuming it is would be begging the question. Assuming the Quran is correct in all things would also be begging the question. And the Quran is incorrect on some things, as well as being incomplete. So, no, that argument doesn't hold. In addition to being an indicator that it is bad advice on its own terms because the Quran is wrong on some things.

(November 13, 2018 at 3:21 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(November 13, 2018 at 3:11 pm)Everena Wrote: As someone who has suffered through quite a bit of pain both as a child and as an adult, I would much rather have an explanation for the pain, rather than think it was just happening to me for no reason at all. And it has the benefit of a positive outcome as well.

Abused spouses have explanations for their pain and why they should stay and continue to be abused.  They, too, are convinced doing so results in positive outcomes.

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(November 13, 2018 at 3:18 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If you are correct, it would be bad advice. If Quran is correct, it would be good advice to those who reached certainty.

If Quran is correct about what, Mystic?  The only thing that counts is being correct in the matter of whether certainty is an indication of truth, the very issue at stake.  Assuming it is would be begging the question.  Assuming the Quran is correct in all things would also be begging the question.  And the Quran is incorrect on some things, as well as being incomplete.  So, no, that argument doesn't hold.  In addition to being an indicator that it is bad advice on its own terms because the Quran is wrong on some things.

It's psychological advice for people who are certain. Was not meant to be an argument in itself.

(November 13, 2018 at 7:28 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(November 13, 2018 at 3:10 am)Everena Wrote: Evolution is a human made term used to describe a process that we discovered was happening. It does not explain the first cause of anything including food. So no, that does not explain why we have food on this planet for the approx 7.8 million different species of conscious life.

"All of this food is miraculous"- said the food.

What, do you imagine, explains the fact that human beings had to actively breed and cultivate our food
Everena: Had to actively breed and cultivate our food while we were eating what? There is literally tons of food that grows naturally and it is far better for you than processed crap.

- that it did not exist at all when we found ourselves hungry and looking around for it?
Everena: What is it that you think did not exist? OMG

 If the existence of food demonstrates a meat fairy, then wouldn't the lack of food demonstrate that there is no meat fairy?

Everena: If you mean the intelligence that put plants on this planet (you know-plants, grass, grain aka what meat eats) and there is no lack of food. We have more than enough food.

 Or was meat fairy starving us hoping that we would learn something..like, how to starve?  
Everena: Who do you know personally that is starving? As far as the starvation problem in this world, it Christians who have reduced it by more than half of what it used to be. This earth is our challenge, not Gods. The food is here and has always been here. Farmers produce enough food each year to feed 10 billion people. Look it up yourself, it is all over the web.

Obviously, I don't think so, because even though I think that meat fairy is ridiculous shit, I wouldn't attach it's existence -or- non existence to such an incompetent argument, but you don't have that luxury.  Additionally, seeing as how you refuse to believe in a cold and unjust universe.....how does a cold and unjust god who creates human beings but doesn't create our food make your cut? 

Everena: Now you are going to pretend food does not even exist on this planet? Wow, how did we ever make it through every single stage of evolution without food? You are being intentionally stupid and irritating and it is getting old. Make realistic truthful statements or don't converse with me.



 Your fridge and your freezer are both full of things that humans created out of necessity, after all.

Everena: Oh, humans created food? Wow did we go back in time and create it for every stage of evolution so we would be here right now? Did humans create this entire universe and the other 200 billion galaxies too do you think? Wow, just wow.

Artificial selection is precisely how we got the things we eat, and how we've made them more delicious than they naturally were'

Everena: Not true. Big gmo fruit tastes much more watery and has much less flavor than regular fruit. 

and we selected those cultivars out of evolved populations.  There's nothing about our food that evolution doesn't explain.  How does referring to something false right on the face of it establish the truth of an existent god?  How does denying some factual statement about reality help to establish that your god statements are, themselves, factual?  Wouldn't an existent god have to..well..exist, in a universe alongside other true things and statements?

Ideally, you'll learn to stop making this argument
Everena: Never.....gonna......happen....and it's a fail for atheism and so is DNA

from your interactions here, because it damages the credibility of your beliefs - but it doesn't have to, you're the one forcing things to be this way..and it's unclear why you couldn't believe in the meat fairy if you ceded the ground in this to facts rather than your own ignorance.

(November 13, 2018 at 3:26 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

Quote:If Quran is correct about what, Mystic?  The only thing that counts is being correct in the matter of whether certainty is an indication of truth, the very issue at stake.  Assuming it is would be begging the question.  Assuming the Quran is correct in all things would also be begging the question.  And the Quran is incorrect on some things, as well as being incomplete.  So, no, that argument doesn't hold.  In addition to being an indicator that it is bad advice on its own terms because the Quran is wrong on some things.

It's psychological advice for people who are certain. Was not meant to be an argument in itself.

Meaning what, Mystic? That it's good advice because it's psychological? What does that even mean. All advice is in some sense psychological, does that make all advice good advice? What do you mean by psychological? That it appeals to things other than reason and logic? If it does, then it is most likely bad advice.

(November 13, 2018 at 3:29 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(November 13, 2018 at 3:26 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: It's psychological advice for people who are certain. Was not meant to be an argument in itself.

Meaning what, Mystic?  That it's good advice because it's psychological?  What does that even mean.  All advice is in some sense psychological, does that make all advicew good advice?  What do you mean by psychological?  That it appeals to things other than reason and logic?  If it does, then it is most likely bad advice.

It is paraphrased by the Prophet to Abu Dhar and paraphrased by me, 

"if you have a treasure with you and people think it's garbage, then you still have a treasure with you. And if you garbage with you and people think it's treasure, then you still have garbage with you. "

I forget the exact words, was part of a long advice to Abu Dhar, but that was gist of it. He probably said it more eloquently, I will scavenge the quote later!

(November 13, 2018 at 7:55 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(November 13, 2018 at 7:28 am)Khemikal Wrote: Artificial selection is precisely how we got the things we eat, and how we've made them more delicious than they naturally were, and we selected those cultivars out of evolved populations.  There's nothing about our food that evolution doesn't explain.  

This is what a wild banana looks like. Notice the inedible seeds.

So what! I don't even like bananas and there are about a zillion other foods besides bananas.

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(November 13, 2018 at 9:53 am)wyzas Wrote:

(November 13, 2018 at 3:10 am)Everena Wrote: Evolution is a human made term used to describe a process that we discovered was happening. It does not explain the first cause of anything including food. So no, that does not explain why we have food on this planet for the approx 7.8 million different species of conscious life.

Pretty sad that you're so insecure and need to invent fantasy explanations to feel comfortable and deal with your life.

Get an education soon.

^the point is food was funnelled genetically by humans to make it what it is today!

(November 13, 2018 at 3:11 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 13, 2018 at 5:33 am)Pandæmonium Wrote: So children who suffer and die in, say, war, or through a terminal illness, only have themselves to blame?

Looks like you’re the one who is cold and cruel, not to mention totally sick and abhorrent, and a troll.

If your beliefs are the key to ‘eternal life’, then leave us out. None of us could be so intellectually dishonest, or so mentally vacant, as to deceive and degrade ourselves to the level you have. You have sacrificed your humanity for a lie, and you’ll never get it back. Gutted for you, I guess.

The suffering is happening either way and you just don't want to believe you will be held accountable for your any of your actions.

  As someone who has suffered through quite a bit of pain both as a child and as an adult, I would much rather have an explanation for the pain, rather than think it was just happening to me for no reason at all. And it has the benefit of a positive outcome as well.

You appear to be psychopathic and delusional in equal measures. You appear to be an exceptionally dangerous and unfeeling individual who revels in the suffering of others if nothing else but for the imagination of you being so special that you’re in on the ‘secret’ behind it all.

You are sickening person and are a great example to everyone of what not to be as a human.

Everena

Quote:The suffering is happening either way and you just don't want to believe you will be held accountable for your any of your actions.
 As someone who has suffered through quite a bit of pain both as a child and as an adult, I would much rather have an explanation for the pain, rather than think it was just happening to me for no reason at all. And it has the benefit of a positive outcome as well.

If what you claim about the power of your god actually was true, the suffering would NOT be happening, thus you statement is nonsense.
You think you get to make up whatever shit you want ... as long as it serves the outcome you desire-need. That's the hallmark of an infant's consciousness.
Your writing seems like about a 15 year old's.