(November 23, 2018 at 7:49 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: An infinitely complex and unknowable deity that's utterly undetectable is hardly a logical assumption. BTW, this is an argument.

Everena: It is by far the ONLY logical assumption anyone who thinks about it AT ALL would ever make. I think atheists may be missing part of their brain or something.

(November 23, 2018 at 7:30 pm)Everena Wrote: Have you ever been in love before? I mean really, really in love where that other person could alter your emotional state (good and bad) in ways you never even thought were possible? Felt that magnetic connection and intense attraction? Had the spiritual and moving experience of making love with that person? I ask because men have told me that they did not realize there was a God until they met their soulmate and I know it helped me believe in God and eternal life.

(November 23, 2018 at 7:49 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: Seriously?!? You fell in love with some guy thus god. QED

BTW, this is still an argument. Evidence?

To answer the question, yes, I have. Three times. So much for soulmates.

(November 23, 2018 at 7:30 pm)Everena Wrote: I fell in love with my soulmate, the other half of me and there is nothing else like it. And u are claiming that uu have been really and truly in love with three different people???? Well, if uu say so......

Quote:And you know absolutely nothing about what anyone else has experienced, and may I add that not one believer in the entire world cares what you think about what they have experienced, so just save it for your atheist friends.

LOL
Then why do you constantly bring up the subject ?
You obviously care a GREAT deal, as you constantly bring it up, AND if if we know nothing about what others experience, then you just said they are pointless to others.
You really ought to *think* about what you post ... you're refuting yourself, dear.

Still WAITING for you to discuss the links you post in your own words, and a list of major university science centers that accept and are working on Penrose's .... um ... ideas.

Take your time sweetie.

(November 23, 2018 at 9:30 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 23, 2018 at 7:49 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: An infinitely complex and unknowable deity that's utterly undetectable is hardly a logical assumption. BTW, this is an argument.

Everena: It is by far the ONLY logical assumption anyone who thinks about it AT ALL would ever make. I think atheists may be missing part of their brain or something.

Oh yeah baby! The insults make your arguments so much more compelling. Keep stating it over and over again! That'll make it so much more true!

Seriously, how's an all-powerful imaginary friend in any way logical?

(November 23, 2018 at 7:30 pm)Everena Wrote: Have you ever been in love before? I mean really, really in love where that other person could alter your emotional state (good and bad) in ways you never even thought were possible? Felt that magnetic connection and intense attraction? Had the spiritual and moving experience of making love with that person? I ask because men have told me that they did not realize there was a God until they met their soulmate and I know it helped me believe in God and eternal life.

(November 23, 2018 at 7:49 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: Seriously?!? You fell in love with some guy thus god. QED

BTW, this is still an argument. Evidence?

To answer the question, yes, I have. Three times. So much for soulmates.

(November 23, 2018 at 7:30 pm)Everena Wrote: I fell in love with my soulmate, the other half of me and there is nothing else like it. And u are claiming that uu have been really and truly in love with three different people???? Well, if uu say so......

And here you see the perils of anecdotal evidence. We simply can't compare our experiences.

---

(November 23, 2018 at 9:39 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:

Quote:And you know absolutely nothing about what anyone else has experienced, and may I add that not one believer in the entire world cares what you think about what they have experienced, so just save it for your atheist friends.

LOL
Then why do you constantly bring up the subject ?
You obviously care a GREAT deal, as you constantly bring it up, AND if if we know nothing about what others experience, then you just said they are pointless to others.
You really ought to *think* about what you post ... you're refuting yourself, dear.

Makes you wonder who she's trying to convince.

(November 23, 2018 at 9:23 pm)Paleophyte Wrote:

(November 23, 2018 at 8:29 pm)Everena Wrote: Here's a .gov link about it


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4594572/

Here's another link

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20...085105.htm

And here's another link

https://www.journals.elsevier.com/physic...vibrations

And here is another link about it 

https://www.scribd.com/document/31829521...sciousness

And here's another link about it
https://phys.org/news/2014-01-discovery-...rates.html

So I guess you were wrong about that, but you did get to learn something new today!

The NIH link presupposes Orch-OR. It doesn't demonstrates it. Three of the other four links are pop-sci rewrites of the paper in "Physics of Life Reviews", link #3, so no surprise that they all seem to say the same thing. The actual publication, by Penrose and Hamerhoff again, shows only quantum vibrations in electrons in microtubules. It doesn't show entanglement or quantum computing. Or computing of any sort. Just electron vibrating, which they do pretty much all the time. It also didn't show bugger all in the way of citations, which is really sloppy scientific writing. The researchers seemed impressed that there was a correlation between the quantum vibrations and EEG patterns, though one might expect that pumping charged ions in and out of neurons regularly might set the electrons in the microtubules to vibrating.

A literature review shows little work by anybody other than Penrose and Hamerhoff. Rather tellingly, one of the few other publishers was Deepak Chopra, whom they appear to take seriously.

There's actually a really easy way to disprove Orch-OR. Electron spin is highly susceptible to influence by external magnetic fields, so if consciousness was produced by electron spin in microtubules then the high-powered magnets in an NMR machine should render you completely unconscious, at best. Clearly that doesn't happen.

Let's assume that Orch-Or is right though. Where does that get you? Now you have a quantum computer in your cells that rots and dies along with the rest of you. Congratulations. It's a very tiny snack for the worms.

"A review and update of a controversial 20-year-old theory of consciousness published in Physics of Life Reviews claims that consciousness derives from deeper level, finer scale activities inside brain neurons."

The theory is that our brain is just a receiver of consciousness and of the most important part of their theory has been proven and corroborated by scientists in Japan, and at MIT, and at the University of Pennsylvania. Haven't you ever seen Hameroff speak about it? Their theory is more accomodating to spiritual approaches about consciousness that to traditional approaches. Interesting stuff. Also, they have a team of neuroscientists, psychologists, medical doctors, biologists, cosmologists, and physicists all working with them on consciousness (and they have for the past 20 years).

Quote:Makes you wonder who she's trying to convince.

She said she was here to recruit. I've always thought theists who come to atheist sites are testing their own beliefs. 
Somewhere they know they are ridiculous, but if they can convince others to buy into their rubbish, they can tell themselves they are not alone

(November 23, 2018 at 9:46 pm)Everena Wrote: The theory is that our brain is just a receiver of consciousness and of the most important part of their theory has been proven and corroborated by scientists in Japan, and at MIT, and at the University of Pennsylvania. Haven't you ever seen Hameroff speak about it? Their theory is more accomodating to spiritual approaches about consciousness that to traditional approaches. Interesting stuff. Also, they have a team of neuroscientists, psychologists, medical doctors, biologists, cosmologists, and physicists all working with them on consciousness (and they have for the past 20 years).

Citations please.

Aside from the fact that a fridge magnet should drop you into a coma, how exactly are these electrons in microtubules receiving anything? Quantum tunnelling is limited to a few microns at best, and you don't have the capacity to produce or maintain entangled electrons.

Quote:The theory is that our brain is just a receiver of consciousness and of the most important part of their theory has been proven and corroborated by scientists in Japan, and at MIT, and at the University of Pennsylvania.

That is an outright LIE.
They proved nothing of the sort. They proved nothing about "consciousness".
This liar had mis-characterized every article she linked us to.
She can't even explain what "the most important part of their theory" means.
Nothing about "received" has even been specifically defined, (or demonstrated). Received FROM WHAT ? LMAO "Received" AND THEN WHAT ?
It's all nothing but woo, and no one except Penrose and Hameroff give a rip about it.
It's embarrassing. No one else is working on it, or even gives this rubbish a minutes thought.

(November 23, 2018 at 9:49 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:

Quote:Makes you wonder who she's trying to convince.

She said she was here to recruit. I've always thought theists who come to atheist sites are testing their own beliefs. 
Somewhere they know they are ridiculous, but if they can convince others to buy into their rubbish, they can tell themselves they are not alone

Recruit who for what?!? She has her own religion™. Is she that desperate for external affirmation?

(November 23, 2018 at 12:16 pm)Everena Wrote: False. Only 7% of the world does not believe in God or a Higher Power. Most of them are Buddhists who believe in karma and reincarnation but not God, or agnostics. There are very few convinced atheists even in the world.  

See for yourself. 73 cited scholarly sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

And of the scientists who do not believe (less than half) they are agnostic and have gone out of their way to publicly distance themselves from atheists. Even Dawkins and Tyson have done so. 
https://bigthink.com/think-tank/neil-deg...r-agnostic

You live in a ficticious version of reality where you just like to pretend there are people who agree with your totally illogical, nonsensical worldview.

It makes no difference if 93% of people believe in gods. If 93% of people believe in irrational ideas, they are STILL irrational ideas. Truth is not dependent on popular votes.

The fact that some scientists have distanced themselves from atheism has no relevance to the advances/discoveries of science  and whether or not God actually exists.

You can pretend that there are people here who disagree with me, but the upvotes to my posts prove you wrong.

(November 23, 2018 at 9:44 pm)Paleophyte Wrote:

(November 23, 2018 at 9:30 pm)Everena Wrote: Everena: It is by far the ONLY logical assumption anyone who thinks about it AT ALL would ever make. I think atheists may be missing part of their brain or something.

Oh yeah baby! The insults make your arguments so much more compelling. Keep stating it over and over again! That'll make it so much more true!

Seriously, how's an all-powerful imaginary friend in any way logical?

Everena: It's not intended as an insult. It must be something if over 93% of the world can understand why it is the only logical assumption and you can't.
I mean this is very obvious to us.... Don't know how else to say it, but it is really not intended to be an insult.

(November 23, 2018 at 7:30 pm)Everena Wrote: Have you ever been in love before? I mean really, really in love where that other person could alter your emotional state (good and bad) in ways you never even thought were possible? Felt that magnetic connection and intense attraction? Had the spiritual and moving experience of making love with that person? I ask because men have told me that they did not realize there was a God until they met their soulmate and I know it helped me believe in God and eternal life.

(November 23, 2018 at 7:49 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: Seriously?!? You fell in love with some guy thus god. QED

BTW, this is still an argument. Evidence?

To answer the question, yes, I have. Three times. So much for soulmates.

(November 23, 2018 at 7:30 pm)Everena Wrote: I fell in love with my soulmate, the other half of me and there is nothing else like it. And u are claiming that uu have been really and truly in love with three different people???? Well, if uu say so......

And here you see the perils of anecdotal evidence. We simply can't compare our experiences.
Everena: I disagree. I think everyone has the spiritual making love experience and only with their soulmate.

---

(November 23, 2018 at 9:39 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: LOL
Then why do you constantly bring up the subject ?
You obviously care a GREAT deal, as you constantly bring it up, AND if if we know nothing about what others experience, then you just said they are pointless to others.
You really ought to *think* about what you post ... you're refuting yourself, dear.

Makes you wonder who she's trying to convince.

Everena: Sorry that I am just honestly telling you why I know God exists beyond any and all doubt.