Quote:But it has evolved into a major belief system.

No it hasn't it it's been  misused 

Quote:  As a whole, it's not just one thing, but rather many things. 

Nope it's one things that's  misused 

Quote: Churches, hymns, offerings, books, T-shirts, church offerings, religious protections, etc... 

Nothing too do with atheism 

Quote: If something is just an idea, it doesn't need all those things to stay afloat.

Lots of ideas can do those things 

Quote:  If I say I don't believe in elves, that's all I would need to say. 

Yup i lack in gods that's all i need to say 

Quote:I wouldn't need to make a church for it to try and offer a counter belief. 

The fact a loony cult is doing that has nothing to do with atheism 

Quote: No need for anti-elf hymns and bake sales. 

See they above 

Quote: If you don't believe in something, just don't believe.

Yup atheism 

Quote:  I don't believe in Bigfoot, but not chasing Bigfoot enthusiast around telling them they're wrong. 

Skeptics criticize Bigfoot enthusiastic s all the time  because they often present terrible evidence 

Quote: That's one of the things I don't quite get about modern atheism.  

You don't seem to get much 

Quote:They say they don't believe in any God or gods, but they go out of their way to practice the same way that theists do. 

No they freaking don't stop equating Atheism to that cult 

Quote: Sure, they still don't believe in any god, but they incorporate the things that are associated with theism into their collective.

No they freaking don't stop equating Atheism to that cult 

---

(December 13, 2018 at 1:42 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(December 13, 2018 at 1:33 pm)Amarok Wrote: because it's not 




Nope 


Nope anything outside of i lack believe or don't accept has nothing to do with atheism

You don't think it is.  You're one atheist, but other atheists say differently.  Who is someone supposed to believe?

I know it isn't . I'm an one atheist who actually sticks to atheism . Other people who are wrong say differently . Believe the person who's stick to Atheism rather then bunch of cultists .

---

(December 13, 2018 at 1:23 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(December 13, 2018 at 11:41 am)Huggy74 Wrote: ... for instance, whats the state for non-belief in Bigfoot?

It's called skepticism, and yes, sometimes that does shade into cynicism or pseudo-skepticism, but many skeptics do what Hume suggested a wise man do, and apportion their belief according to the strength of the evidence, without necessarily swinging the other direction on that account.  Prominent skeptics like James Randi are quite explicit on that point.

Yup Skepticism of the god claim

(December 13, 2018 at 1:30 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(December 13, 2018 at 1:19 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: If a statement begins with "I don't believe..." then I doubt it could be called a belief system.

But it has evolved into a major belief system.  As a whole, it's not just one thing, but rather many things.  Churches, hymns, offerings, books, T-shirts, church offerings, religious protections, etc...  If something is just an idea, it doesn't need all those things to stay afloat.  If I say I don't believe in elves, that's all I would need to say.  I wouldn't need to make a church for it to try and offer a counter belief.  No need for anti-elf hymns and bake sales.  If you don't believe in something, just don't believe.  I don't believe in Bigfoot, but not chasing Bigfoot enthusiast around telling them they're wrong.  That's one of the things I don't quite get about modern atheism.  They say they don't believe in any God or gods, but they go out of their way to practice the same way that theists do.  Sure, they still don't believe in any god, but they incorporate the things that are associated with theism into their collective.

Some atheist and humanists have found that religion employs certain tools and methods that are good and beneficial and would like to find a way to add those things to their lives without taking on the religious baggage that comes with them. It's kind of a form of syncretism, and is a synthesis of ideas that attempt to separate the human from the religious, and use the good bits of that. But adapting things that are simply human isn't adopting religion, just as if I like to burn incense because I like the smell and find it soothing doesn't mean that my doing so is religious. You're both attempting to claim certain behaviors as necessarily religious, even when engaged in for non-religious reasons, when convenient, yet simultaneously trying to distance yourself from them by claiming that religion is NOT necessarily these behaviors, such as Huggy's dance step around the dictionary in trying to equate praise, worship, and celebration, so as to include non-religious behaviors in his definition of religion, for reasons that are transparently obvious. In short, theists are talking out of both sides of their mouth in making this argument, and once that aspect is clarified, the argument collapses. You have to go one of two ways. Either identifying everything that religious humans do as part of their being religious, and therefore anybody else who is also human and engages in those behaviors is religious, which is a form of equivocation, and so fails, or, you restrict the identity to behaviors identified through paradigm cases such as Ninian Smart has done through his seven dimensions of religion, and then the argument fails because atheists and atheism aren't particularly religious on such measures. Both ways lead to failure of the overall argument.

(December 13, 2018 at 1:42 pm)Amarok Wrote:

Quote:But it has evolved into a major belief system.

No it hasn't it it's been  misused 

Quote:  As a whole, it's not just one thing, but rather many things. 

Nope it's one things that's  misused 

Quote: Churches, hymns, offerings, books, T-shirts, church offerings, religious protections, etc... 

Nothing too do with atheism 

Quote: If something is just an idea, it doesn't need all those things to stay afloat.

Lots of ideas can do those things 

Quote:  If I say I don't believe in elves, that's all I would need to say. 

Yup i lack in gods that's all i need to say 

Quote:I wouldn't need to make a church for it to try and offer a counter belief. 

The fact a loony cult is doing that has nothing to do with atheism 

Quote: No need for anti-elf hymns and bake sales. 

See they above 

Quote: If you don't believe in something, just don't believe.

Yup atheism 

Quote:  I don't believe in Bigfoot, but not chasing Bigfoot enthusiast around telling them they're wrong. 

Skeptics criticize Bigfoot enthusiastic s all the time  because they often present terrible evidence 

Quote: That's one of the things I don't quite get about modern atheism.  

You don't seem to get much 

Quote:They say they don't believe in any God or gods, but they go out of their way to practice the same way that theists do. 

No they freaking don't stop equating Atheism to that cult 

Quote: Sure, they still don't believe in any god, but they incorporate the things that are associated with theism into their collective.

No they freaking don't stop equating Atheism to that cult 

Has everything to do with atheism when it's incorporated into the religion.  Why do you need bake sales?  Now you have atheists trying to have bake sales to prove their belief (or disbelief).  It's kinds weird though that instead of money you have to "offer your soul" to get a cookie.  So harass the public with a bake sale to try to validate your belief (or disbelief)?  What happens if I say "no."  Do they refuse to give me a cookie?  I guess at this point I am starting to get more of a bias towards atheism.  Not because I want to, but because of what I see them doing.  But I also have certain biases against theists and their claims at times, so I guess it's pretty much the same. 

UWA Atheist & Skeptic Society

(from their website)

The UWA Atheist & Skeptic Society is having a Bake Sale on the UWA Oak Lawn this Wednesday (21 Sep 2011) at 1 pm. There’s an unusual twist: Rather than accept money for the baked goods, the club simply requests… your soul.

It’s an interesting experiment in superstition metaphysics. I don’t know if people will gratefully accept a cookie, get angry, or shy away. I told a Christian guy about it, and he said, no, he wouldn’t be interested in a cookie. But why not? Does he really think he has a soul, and if so, what is it? Can it be traded in a Faustian bargain? Does it hit uncomfortably close to C.S. Lewis’s witch, who offers you Turkish Delight but instead only gives you pages and pages of turgid allegory? (Or something. I always was a little fuzzy on Lewis.)

Here’s a blurb I’m working on, to hand out at the event.

(December 13, 2018 at 1:51 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Has everything to do with atheism when it's incorporated into the religion.  Why do you need bake sales?  Now you have atheists trying to have bake sales to prove their belief (or disbelief).  It's kinds weird though that instead of money you have to "offer your soul" to get a cookie.  So harass the public with a bake sale to try to validate your belief (or disbelief)?  What happens if I say "no."  Do they refuse to give me a cookie?  I guess at this point I am starting to get more of a bias towards atheism.  Not because I want to, but because of what I see them doing.  But I also have certain biases against theists and their claims at times, so I guess it's pretty much the same. 

UWA Atheist & Skeptic Society

(from their website)

The UWA Atheist & Skeptic Society is having a Bake Sale on the UWA Oak Lawn this Wednesday (21 Sep 2011) at 1 pm. There’s an unusual twist: Rather than accept money for the baked goods, the club simply requests… your soul.

It’s an interesting experiment in superstition metaphysics. I don’t know if people will gratefully accept a cookie, get angry, or shy away. I told a Christian guy about it, and he said, no, he wouldn’t be interested in a cookie. But why not? Does he really think he has a soul, and if so, what is it? Can it be traded in a Faustian bargain? Does it hit uncomfortably close to C.S. Lewis’s witch, who offers you Turkish Delight but instead only gives you pages and pages of turgid allegory? (Or something. I always was a little fuzzy on Lewis.)

Here’s a blurb I’m working on, to hand out at the event.

There was a time when I would have been hesitant to 'deny the holy spirit' as one atheist challenge had it, given that was the one unforgivable sin. I didn't believe in God, but that seemed to be just needlessly tempting fate and daring the fates to condemn you. If nothing else, it points out the power that these ideas have in our lives, even in the modern world. It's somewhat frightening when you think about it.

Quote:as everything to do with atheism when it's incorporated into the religion.  

Nope

Quote:Why do you need bake sales? 

Hold and social experiment  is not equal to your depiction 

Quote:Now you have atheists trying to have bake sales to prove their belief (or disbelief).  

Or they are just messing with religious people 

Quote:It's kinds weird though that instead of money you have to "offer your soul" to get a cookie. 

Are you on drugs ?

Quote: So harass the public with a bake sale to try to validate your belief (or disbelief)? 

No seriously 

Quote: What happens if I say "no."  Do they refuse to give me a cookie? 

No seriously 

Quote: I guess at this point I am starting to get more of a bias towards atheism.

No seriously 

Quote:  Not because I want to, but because of what I see them doing.  But I also have certain biases against theists and their claims at times, so I guess it's pretty much the same. 

No seriously 

Quote:UWA Atheist & Skeptic Society

(from their website)

The UWA Atheist & Skeptic Society is having a Bake Sale on the UWA Oak Lawn this Wednesday (21 Sep 2011) at 1 pm. There’s an unusual twist: Rather than accept money for the baked goods, the club simply requests… your soul.

You realize that their being cheeky right 

Quote:It’s an interesting experiment in superstition metaphysics. 

Yup and 

Quote:I don’t know if people will gratefully accept a cookie, get angry, or shy away. 

Seek help 

Quote:I told a Christian guy about it, and he said, no, he wouldn’t be interested in a cookie.

Good for him 

Quote: But why not? Does he really think he has a soul, and if so, what is it?

Yeah whatever

Quote: Can it be traded in a Faustian bargain? Does it hit uncomfortably close to C.S. Lewis’s witch, who offers you Turkish Delight but instead only gives you pages and pages of turgid allegory? (Or something. I always was a little fuzzy on Lewis.)

So nothing then 

Quote:Here’s a blurb I’m working on, to hand out at the event.

Have fun with that

---

(December 13, 2018 at 1:55 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(December 13, 2018 at 1:51 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Has everything to do with atheism when it's incorporated into the religion.  Why do you need bake sales?  Now you have atheists trying to have bake sales to prove their belief (or disbelief).  It's kinds weird though that instead of money you have to "offer your soul" to get a cookie.  So harass the public with a bake sale to try to validate your belief (or disbelief)?  What happens if I say "no."  Do they refuse to give me a cookie?  I guess at this point I am starting to get more of a bias towards atheism.  Not because I want to, but because of what I see them doing.  But I also have certain biases against theists and their claims at times, so I guess it's pretty much the same. 

UWA Atheist & Skeptic Society

(from their website)

The UWA Atheist & Skeptic Society is having a Bake Sale on the UWA Oak Lawn this Wednesday (21 Sep 2011) at 1 pm. There’s an unusual twist: Rather than accept money for the baked goods, the club simply requests… your soul.

It’s an interesting experiment in superstition metaphysics. I don’t know if people will gratefully accept a cookie, get angry, or shy away. I told a Christian guy about it, and he said, no, he wouldn’t be interested in a cookie. But why not? Does he really think he has a soul, and if so, what is it? Can it be traded in a Faustian bargain? Does it hit uncomfortably close to C.S. Lewis’s witch, who offers you Turkish Delight but instead only gives you pages and pages of turgid allegory? (Or something. I always was a little fuzzy on Lewis.)

Here’s a blurb I’m working on, to hand out at the event.

There was a time when I would have been hesitant to 'deny the holy spirit' as one atheist challenge had it, given that was the one unforgivable sin.  I didn't believe in God, but that seemed to be just needlessly tempting fate and daring the fates to condemn you.  If nothing else, it points out the power that these ideas have in our lives, even in the modern world.  It's somewhat frightening when you think about it.

He thinks a cheeky social experiment is equal trying to prove a religion

I think Max is beyond help, Amarok. You can't fix stupid.

(December 13, 2018 at 2:14 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: I think Max is beyond help, Amarok.  You can't fix stupid.

Oh i realized this ages ago

(December 13, 2018 at 2:00 pm)Amarok Wrote:

Quote:as everything to do with atheism when it's incorporated into the religion.  

Nope

Quote:Why do you need bake sales? 

Hold and social experiment  is not equal to your depiction 

Quote:Now you have atheists trying to have bake sales to prove their belief (or disbelief).  

Or they are just messing with religious people 

Quote:It's kinds weird though that instead of money you have to "offer your soul" to get a cookie. 

Are you on drugs ?

Quote: So harass the public with a bake sale to try to validate your belief (or disbelief)? 

No seriously 

Quote: What happens if I say "no."  Do they refuse to give me a cookie? 

No seriously 

Quote: I guess at this point I am starting to get more of a bias towards atheism.

No seriously 

Quote:  Not because I want to, but because of what I see them doing.  But I also have certain biases against theists and their claims at times, so I guess it's pretty much the same. 

No seriously 

Quote:UWA Atheist & Skeptic Society

(from their website)

The UWA Atheist & Skeptic Society is having a Bake Sale on the UWA Oak Lawn this Wednesday (21 Sep 2011) at 1 pm. There’s an unusual twist: Rather than accept money for the baked goods, the club simply requests… your soul.

You realize that their being cheeky right 

Quote:It’s an interesting experiment in superstition metaphysics. 

Yup and 

Quote:I don’t know if people will gratefully accept a cookie, get angry, or shy away. 

Seek help 

Quote:I told a Christian guy about it, and he said, no, he wouldn’t be interested in a cookie.

Good for him 

Quote: But why not? Does he really think he has a soul, and if so, what is it?

Yeah whatever

Quote: Can it be traded in a Faustian bargain? Does it hit uncomfortably close to C.S. Lewis’s witch, who offers you Turkish Delight but instead only gives you pages and pages of turgid allegory? (Or something. I always was a little fuzzy on Lewis.)

So nothing then 

Quote:Here’s a blurb I’m working on, to hand out at the event.

Have fun with that

---

(December 13, 2018 at 1:55 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: There was a time when I would have been hesitant to 'deny the holy spirit' as one atheist challenge had it, given that was the one unforgivable sin.  I didn't believe in God, but that seemed to be just needlessly tempting fate and daring the fates to condemn you.  If nothing else, it points out the power that these ideas have in our lives, even in the modern world.  It's somewhat frightening when you think about it.

He thinks a social experiment equal trying to prove a religion

No, I think it's people being pests to try to make themselves feel validated.  That's why I said it makes me feel certain biases.  As a whole, I don't having any ill-feelings directed at anybody for simply being an "atheist" no matter how they choose to define it.  But when you have atheists running around bothering everybody, and that I find rather annoying.  Theists do this too though, and I get annoyed by it as well at times.  Believe what you believe and treat others kindly.  If someone wants you to share, then great, share away.  If someone doesn't want to listen to you share, don't force it on them.  If an atheist shows up on my doorstep, they can come inside and be treated like family.  If they show up on my doorstep offering me a "cookie for my soul" they will have approximately 15 seconds to disappear or they'll have two hounds attached to their behind.

Quote:No, I think it's people being pests to try to make themselves feel validated. 

That's your opinion personally i think it's interesting experiment on the nature of superstition rather then the dark light your trying to paint it in 

Quote: That's why I said it makes me feel certain biases. 

That's your problem 

Quote: As a whole, I don't having any ill-feelings directed at anybody for simply being an "atheist" no matter how they choose to define it.

I do when a bunch of cultist hijack a position then twist it into a cult  

Quote:  But when you have atheists running around bothering everybody, and that I find rather annoying  

Challenging superstition and religious claims is fine . But your fine not liking it . It's no skin off our nose .

Quote:Theists do this too though, and I get annoyed by it as well at times. 

Two bad their goals are completely different 

Quote: Believe what you believe and treat others kindly.

Too bad it isn't a belief 

Quote:  If someone wants you to share, then great, share away. 

Too bad 

Quote: If someone doesn't want to listen to you share, don't force it on them.  

Too bad 

Quote:If an atheist shows up on my doorstep, they can come inside and be treated like family.

They won't 

Quote:  If they show up on my doorstep offering me a "cookie for my soul" they will have approximately 15 seconds to disappear or they'll have two hounds attached to their behind.

Yeah whatever

(December 13, 2018 at 2:27 pm)Amarok Wrote:

Quote:No, I think it's people being pests to try to make themselves feel validated. 

That's your opinion personally i think it's interesting experiment on the nature of superstition rather then the dark light your trying to paint it in 

Quote: That's why I said it makes me feel certain biases. 

That's your problem 

Quote: As a whole, I don't having any ill-feelings directed at anybody for simply being an "atheist" no matter how they choose to define it.

I do when a bunch of cultist hijack a position then twist it into a cult  

Quote:  But when you have atheists running around bothering everybody, and that I find rather annoying  

Challenging superstition and religious claims is fine . But your fine not liking it . It's no skin off our nose .

Quote:Theists do this too though, and I get annoyed by it as well at times. 

Two bad their goals are completely different 

Quote: Believe what you believe and treat others kindly.

Too bad it isn't a belief 

Quote:  If someone wants you to share, then great, share away. 

Too bad 

Quote: If someone doesn't want to listen to you share, don't force it on them.  

Too bad 

Quote:If an atheist shows up on my doorstep, they can come inside and be treated like family.

They won't 

Quote:  If they show up on my doorstep offering me a "cookie for my soul" they will have approximately 15 seconds to disappear or they'll have two hounds attached to their behind.

Yeah whatever

You're right, it is "my problem" which is why I deal with it.  I don't like having biases, but sometimes they can be healthy.   You may think it's okay to have a fake bake sale with an agenda and bother people, but it's likely to annoy people when they find out it's a cookie scam to try to prove or disprove something.