(December 14, 2018 at 12:48 pm)Mathilda Wrote:

(December 14, 2018 at 12:43 pm)Dmitry1983 Wrote: If brain is a transceiver and consciousness is located somewhere else then consciousness can survive decapitation and it doesn't matter what happens with body.

Why aren't you conscious when you have anesthetic and are put under for an operation?

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(December 14, 2018 at 12:47 pm)Dmitry1983 Wrote: Did you see new colors or hear new sounds?

As I said, my subjective experience of the sounds I was hearing was vastly different. Unlike anything I experienced when not on drugs.

I am sure that if I ever took LSD though then I would see new colours, such as these guys are reporting

https://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/3g...w_colours/

There is a huge difference between consciousness and cognition. If your doped up, or in an alcoholic black out, or put under for surgery it is simply a matter of being unaware in the same state as if you were fully lucid, healthy and have waking cognition.

But again, altering brain chemistry isn't the same as having your brain completely die with no function beyond any window. Nobody survives complete total and irreversible brain death. Once enough of your cells die beyond repair there is no more you.

The idea of being separate than one's body is simply old mythology, claims in all of antiquity because humans worldwide back then didn't have benefit of modern understanding of biology, or neurology.

Personally as a scientist who has created biologically plausible neural networks I've found cannabis (and suffering from MS) to be absolutely fascinating.

I had a constant sense of buoyancy when I had my first major attack of MS because the myelin sheath had been stripped away along the nerves at the top of my spine. This meant that signals from my body were slowed down before they reached my brain. This gave me a sense of buoyancy every time I made a step to the point where I seriously would have worried about floating off the ground when walking down the stairs if I didn't know better.

And yes there were MRI scans.

Luckily my body repaired itself and all I have been left with is a really gritty sensation in my hands and fingers (imagine having gloves filled with cornflakes)

Entirely new forms of qualia directly detectable and explainable using modern science.

(December 14, 2018 at 12:54 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(December 14, 2018 at 12:52 pm)Dmitry1983 Wrote: Can you provide sources?

If you want anecdotes, sure.  Literally a 10 second google search will unearth a bunch.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/3g...w_colours/

http://www.lsdexperience.com/part-2/colors/

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showfla...r/15507458

That probably proves me wrong. Scientists should study these experiences  to directly detect neural structures responcible for creation of qualia and reproduce artificial subjective experience in a computer. If that's possible then mind-body problem is solved. Until then there is good chance that consciousness is external and therefore supernatural.

(December 14, 2018 at 1:21 pm)Dmitry1983 Wrote:

(December 14, 2018 at 12:54 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: If you want anecdotes, sure.  Literally a 10 second google search will unearth a bunch.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/3g...w_colours/

http://www.lsdexperience.com/part-2/colors/

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showfla...r/15507458

That probably proves me wrong. Scientists should study these experiences  to directly detect neural structures responcible for creation of qualia and reproduce artificial subjective experience in a computer. If that's possible then mind-body problem is solved. Until then there is good chance that consciousness is external and therefore supernatural.

Bolded mine.  How the flying hell do you come to the conclusion that just because scientists haven't figured something out completely, that the cause is probably supernatural?

You're just pulling that out of your ass.  In order to appeal to something as an explanation, you need to demonstrate that thing exists.  I can't appeal to leprechauns as an explanation for my wealth because leprechauns haven't been demonstrated to exist.  I can't appeal to santa as the explanation for gifts I receive at Christmas because santa hasn't been demonstrated to exist.  And you don't get to appeal to the supernatural as the explanation for consciousness because the supernatural hasn't been demonstrated to exist.

This is the pure, crystallized, black-tar form of the argument of ignorance. Why can't you simply say "I don't know what the explanation is yet?" Why must you imbue the supernatural onto the explanation?

(December 14, 2018 at 1:21 pm)Dmitry1983 Wrote: That probably proves me wrong. Scientists should study these experiences  to directly detect neural structures responcible for creation of qualia and reproduce artificial subjective experience in a computer. If that's possible then mind-body problem is solved. Until then there is good chance that consciousness is external and therefore supernatural.

You gonna answer my question, bubblebutt?

(December 14, 2018 at 1:25 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(December 14, 2018 at 1:21 pm)Dmitry1983 Wrote: That probably proves me wrong. Scientists should study these experiences  to directly detect neural structures responcible for creation of qualia and reproduce artificial subjective experience in a computer. If that's possible then mind-body problem is solved. Until then there is good chance that consciousness is external and therefore supernatural.

Bolded mine.  How the flying hell do you come to the conclusion that just because scientists haven't figured something out completely, that the cause is probably supernatural?

Isn't that the end conclusion of all theists positions?

(December 14, 2018 at 1:31 pm)wyzas Wrote:

(December 14, 2018 at 1:25 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Bolded mine.  How the flying hell do you come to the conclusion that just because scientists haven't figured something out completely, that the cause is probably supernatural?

Isn't that the end conclusion of all theists positions?

Theists do not want to consider the gap of eternity as an answer is really nothing more than a comic book reflection, in false perception form, of our own natural evolutionary drive to survive. The fear of death drives us to avoid harm. We wouldn't look both ways crossing a busy street if we didn't evolve with survival skills. Cockroaches survive too, ever try chasing one down, that is clear evidence of the strive to survive.

(December 14, 2018 at 1:44 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(December 14, 2018 at 1:31 pm)wyzas Wrote: Isn't that the end conclusion of all theists positions?

 Cockroaches survive too, ever try chasing one down, that is clear evidence of the strive to survive.

Can you reproduce artifcial fear that cockroaches feel in a computer? Brain of cockroach is much simpler than modern supercomputers.

(December 14, 2018 at 1:21 pm)Dmitry1983 Wrote:

(December 14, 2018 at 12:54 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: If you want anecdotes, sure.  Literally a 10 second google search will unearth a bunch.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/3g...w_colours/

http://www.lsdexperience.com/part-2/colors/

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showfla...r/15507458

That probably proves me wrong. Scientists should study these experiences  to directly detect neural structures responcible for creation of qualia and reproduce artificial subjective experience in a computer. If that's possible then mind-body problem is solved. Until then there is good chance that consciousness is external and therefore supernatural.

There is no "mind/body" problem to be solved. 

Just like there is no car/engine problem to be solved. Blow up the car engine beyond repair, the car isn't going to function.

There is no life after death. Just like there is no such thing as a pre life. Do you think a cockroach has a pre life or after life? If you kill a cockroach, do you think it has a "mind" that goes on after you kill it?

(December 14, 2018 at 1:55 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(December 14, 2018 at 1:21 pm)Dmitry1983 Wrote: That probably proves me wrong. Scientists should study these experiences  to directly detect neural structures responcible for creation of qualia and reproduce artificial subjective experience in a computer. If that's possible then mind-body problem is solved. Until then there is good chance that consciousness is external and therefore supernatural.

There is no "mind/body" problem to be solved. 

Just like there is no car/engine problem to be solved. Blow up the car engine beyond repair, the car isn't going to function.

What about modern military drones that can be remotely controlled?

Quote:There is no life after death. Just like there is no such thing as a pre life. Do you think a cockroach has a pre life or after life? If you kill a cockroach, do you think it has a "mind" that goes on after you kill it?

Probably