Where would we all be without the efforts of our European ancestors???
How about sparing a thought for your own forefathers that sacrificed their lives to make our existence possible.
We don't disrespect our WW2 veterans. Why then do we disrespect our previous war vets?
Do u guys respect the British that colonized America? Would you have preferred they didn't?

Successful atheist states cannot be observed anywhere in history.
Christianity got the west to where it is. Not atheism

(December 26, 2018 at 2:20 am)Agnostico Wrote: Im just refuting your claim with facts. Thats all.

Just another thing for you to be wrong about, I guess.  :  shrugs :

Quote:Do u think all atheists all have the same morals?

Wasn't aimed at me...but, as an interesting aside(?)...a close inspection reveals that the fundamental basis of moral calculus is remarkably similar between all of us. The main disagreements center around empirical facts, not moral ones.

At work.

Agnostico?

I ask again if English is or is not your native language?

Though, by a previous post, I am guessing it is not.

Knowing will at least allow us to adjust how we respond to you appropriately.

For example-

Your current infatuation with other men's dicks might seem..at first, to be a subject in which there's a vast gulf of difference between us.  Is it a moral difference, though, or an empirical one?  Likely, the latter.  It would be easy to understand if you'd like to do a little exploring.  -Why- are you so concerned?

(December 26, 2018 at 2:37 am)Gae Bolga Wrote:

(December 26, 2018 at 2:20 am)Agnostico Wrote: Im just refuting your claim with facts. Thats all.

Just another thing for you to be wrong about, I guess.  :  shrugs :

Quote:Do u think all atheists all have the same morals?

Wasn't aimed at me...but, as an interesting aside(?)...a close inspection reveals that the fundamental basis of moral calculus is remarkably similar between all of us.  The main disagreements center around empirical facts, not moral ones.

U said I was wrong about homosexuality in the ancients. Your claim is refuted by facts. End of story with u troll.

(December 26, 2018 at 2:51 am)Agnostico Wrote:

(December 26, 2018 at 2:37 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Just another thing for you to be wrong about, I guess.  :  shrugs :

Wasn't aimed at me...but, as an interesting aside(?)...a close inspection reveals that the fundamental basis of moral calculus is remarkably similar between all of us.  The main disagreements center around empirical facts, not moral ones.

U said I was wrong about homosexuality in the ancients. Your claim is refuted by facts. End of story with u troll.

Because you are, but obviously things like that are completely beyond your ability to comprehend.  You probably should be able to comprehend the contents of your own mind..though.  Which makes that an entirely more productive avenue for discussion.

Any thoughts on that question I asked you?

(December 26, 2018 at 2:41 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: At work.

Agnostico?

I ask again if English is or is not your native language?

Though, by a previous post, I am guessing it is not.

Knowing will at least allow us to adjust how we respond to you appropriately.

I gave u a chance. Your just a troll as well
Refusing to address any of my questions. Its obvious from my post where im from if it bothers u so much
But its obvious ur just a hostile troll. Dogmatic at the core

---

GOODNESS GRACIOUS FALLACIOUS...
TROLLS TROLLS TROLLS.

The post was in response to Grandizer anyway.
Il just wait for his response and dismiss the rest as immature dogma. 
Using every fallacy under the sun to avoid addressing my points.

Could you describe the "dogma" you're referring to, by chance?

(December 26, 2018 at 2:55 am)Agnostico Wrote: Lets take gay marriage as an example. Atheism itself has no position on this topic. All the religions are against it.

Well you had the Hitler's Germany where all the values that you hold dear were enforced like homosexuality was forbidden, gays were put to death, abortion was illegal and whole Germany was "purified" from all other religions except Christianity--you know it was just society of pure white straight Christians-- and yet it collapsed spectacularly in just few years.
In contrast Germany today is one of the most liberal countries with gay marriage being legal as well as prostitution, not to mention other things and yet it is one of the richest and most productive countries in the world.

(December 26, 2018 at 2:55 am)Agnostico Wrote: You conveniently skipped the part about gay trans kids though. Do agree with that?

LOL why do you get worked up about trans kids? Trans kids are less than 1%, not to mention they are mostly from straight marriages. You really think those trans kids will kill you?

This reminds me of an anecdote Dan Savage wrote about his son (you know Savage has an adapted son with his husband)

Quote:We had taken D.J. and two of his friends on a snowboarding trip. The adults were in the kitchen, cleaning up after dinner, while the three teenage boys sat around the dining room table taking the piss out of each other. [...] until one of the boys turned to D.J. and said, “So you have gay parents. Guess that means you’re going to be gay too.” D.J. was fourteen then, straight and out and proud, with one girlfriend down. Terry and I looked at each other, not sure what to do. D.J.’s friend was baiting him—and baiting him with an unsubtle homophobic jab within earshot of D.J.’s gay parents!—but we hesitated to come to D.J.’s defense. He had long ago made it clear that he didn’t need or want us to fight his battles for him.
“My parents are gay,” D.J. finally said, breaking the silence. “But their parents were straight. Like your parents. So if anyone else is going to be gay around here, it’s you.”

(December 26, 2018 at 2:55 am)Agnostico Wrote: This is why the anti theism, the hate, the anger. It frustrates me. It pays no regard to the fact that none of us would even be here if not for Christianity.

Really? Even the Muslims and Jews wouldn't be "here"? Actually we're here in spite of Christianity since it's so against science and gays and considering how much gay scientists contributed to computer science I say Christianity has least to do of us talking here.

(December 26, 2018 at 2:55 am)Agnostico Wrote: The formation of kingdoms in Europoe where all based on Christianity. England, France, Italy, Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, etc.

Really? Is this what you want to go back to? Monarchy?

(December 26, 2018 at 2:55 am)Agnostico Wrote: And how they put aside their differences to fight the immediate threat and common enemy in Islam

And what about when they fought each other all the time? Like Hundred Years' War? Or like when in 1559, France and Spain signed a treaty agreeing to extirpate Protestantism from their lands. Just between 1562 and 1589 eight Huguenot (protestant) wars occurred. Each side was brutal. Huguenot soldiers smashed church ornaments and hunted priests like animals. One captain wore a necklace of priests 7 ears. Even Pope Pius sent troops to France to help fight the Huguenots, and ordered the commander to kill every prisoner taken. Pius was later canonized as a saint.

(December 26, 2018 at 2:55 am)Agnostico Wrote: The only thing that angers me about the crusades is even though they stopped the invasion they couldn't eradicate Islam.

Not to mention Judaism and Christianity because crusaders killed nearly as many Christians and Jews as they did Muslims. In the Rhine Valley of Germany, one throng of crusaders followed a goose they thought had been enchanted by God to be their guide. This group joined the army of Emich of Leisingen, a leader who said a cross miraculously had appeared on his chest as a holy sign. Emich's multitude decided that, before marching 2,000 miles to kill God's enemies in Israel, their first religious duty was to slay "the infidels among us" the Jews of Mainz, Worms, and other German cities. They swept in unstoppable waves through Jewish quarters, chopping and burning thousands of defenseless men, women, and children. Many Jews, trapped and doomed in barricaded quarters, tearfully killed their children and themselves before the mob broke in.

Similar hordes led by priests Volkmar and Gottschalk likewise massacred Jews of Prague and Regensburg, Bavaria. Occasionally, victims were given a last-minute opportunity, at swordpoint, to save their lives by converting to Christianity.

Christianity is made up. So sure someone can base their morals on it but it doesn't make it right or wrong. I can be a good person without religion.