(December 26, 2018 at 2:37 am)Agnostico Wrote: Where would we all be without the efforts of our European ancestors???
How about sparing a thought for your own forefathers that sacrificed their lives to make our existence possible.
We don't disrespect our WW2 veterans. Why then do we disrespect our previous war vets?
Do u guys respect the British that colonized America? Would you have preferred they didn't?

Successful atheist states cannot be observed anywhere in history.
Christianity got the west to where it is. Not atheism

So where would we be without chrsitainity. Much better off.

Quote:Christianity got the west to where it is.

I think it might be more accurate to say that the West got to where it is in spite of Christianity, not because of it.

Boru

(December 26, 2018 at 6:50 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(December 26, 2018 at 2:37 am)Agnostico Wrote: Where would we all be without the efforts of our European ancestors???
How about sparing a thought for your own forefathers that sacrificed their lives to make our existence possible.
We don't disrespect our WW2 veterans. Why then do we disrespect our previous war vets?
Do u guys respect the British that colonized America? Would you have preferred they didn't?

Successful atheist states cannot be observed anywhere in history.
Christianity got the west to where it is. Not atheism

So where would we be without chrsitainity. Much better off.

Where else would u rather be... ohh i see.
The imaginary world... Pipe dreams...LoL

But that actually gave me the reason why American atheists are so hostile compared to Euro atheists. It all makes sense now

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Let's simplify it. Step by step.
One question. Yes or No
Is adultery right???

(December 24, 2018 at 9:34 pm)Agnostico Wrote:

(December 24, 2018 at 1:12 pm)Grandizer Wrote: What exactly about "the law" is Christian? Be specific, because this is such a vague answer you've given.

https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j19_..._67-73.pdf

https://pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/cgi/v...historians


I'ts irrelevant now anyway. The west is in decline economically and socially and I don't think there is any chance of turning back.
I don't think it will hapen in our lifetime but the west will fall to either China or Islam.

I haven't read your articles either, though I appreciate the links. For many centuries, China ran on Confucian principles and before that was heavily influenced by non-religious philosophy during a period of philosophical flourishing during the Axial age. China functioned quite well in the area of law both before and after unification without any need for Christianity. As Wikipedia notes, "With particular emphasis on the importance of the family and social harmony, rather than on an otherworldly source of spiritual values, the core of Confucianism is humanistic." That pretty much puts a nail in the thesis that society depends upon Christianity for a concept of law. As with Confucianism, a concept of duty and order are all that are required and those can be derived from secular sources. If you had said "our society," meaning the United States, you might have had a point. But you would still be wrong as the relationship between the law in the U.S. and Christianity is a contingent one, not a necessary one, so it's entirely possible that law in the U.S. would have developed just fine based upon some other cultural source other than Christianity. If this is your primary reason for holding "Christian values, " then it seems a rather silly one.

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(December 26, 2018 at 2:37 am)Agnostico Wrote: Successful atheist states cannot be observed anywhere in history.

(December 26, 2018 at 7:46 am)Agnostico Wrote: Let's simplify it. Step by step.
One question. Yes or No
Is adultery right???

It depends on how people agree: some people live in an open marriage, some in polygamous, some don't get married but live as partners...
I guess the worst thing is when two people hate each other but stay married because they are afraid that if they divorce they'll burn in hell forever.

(December 26, 2018 at 7:46 am)Agnostico Wrote:

(December 26, 2018 at 6:50 am)Let\s simplify it. Step by step.One question. Yes or NoIs adultery right??? Wrote:

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I don't get that this is a 'yes or no' type question.  Cheating and deceiving a partner is almost always wrong, but adultery doesn't always constitute cheating.

Boru

(December 26, 2018 at 7:46 am)Agnostico Wrote:

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Let's simplify it. Step by step.
One question. Yes or No
Is adultery right???

How can anyone answer this except within a subjective religious/legal context?

Pretty easily, actually...though both the religious and the legal context will seem particularly arbitrary compared to other offerings.

Why is it right or wrong in a religious context? Godsaidso. Why is it right or wrong in a legal context? Lawsaidso. Plenty of folks could give more elaborate answers as to why they think god or law said so...the truly hilarious bit, is that they're entirely likely to be wrong in their explanation of the whys of religion and law even if they're hitting the moral nail on the head. Adultery is wrong from the abrahamic and legal perspective for no reason other than ambiguity over property and ownership in inheritance.

(December 26, 2018 at 10:57 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Cheating and deceiving a partner is almost always wrong

I agree but adultery carries no legal punishment now. This is where secular morals fail in society. There is no collective atheist moral basis.
There will always be differences in opinions because your morals are subjective. They focus on yourself, here and now instead on the benefit to society in the future.

(December 26, 2018 at 7:46 am)Agnostico Wrote:

(December 26, 2018 at 6:50 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:



So where would we be without chrsitainity. Much better off.

Where else would u rather be... ohh i see.
The imaginary world... Pipe dreams...LoL

But that actually gave me the reason why American atheists are so hostile compared to Euro atheists. It all makes sense now

---

Let's simplify it. Step by step.
One question. Yes or No
Is adultery right???

It is a fact that the church of different stripes, has gone out of its way in cahoots with the governments of the day to suppress knowledge that contradicts the bible and to dissuade further knowledge.
The idea was that that there was no use looking into things because they already knew the answer to everything, which was that god did it. End of investigation.

The works from the ancient world only survived because the Muslims preserved it, without them we would be even more behind scientifically.

So without Christian intervention we can expect to be more advanced than we are now. We can see this still working in the US today where they deny evolution, the age of the earth, the effects of man on the environment and more, all in the name of their religion.


And you think I am an American! One more thing for you to be wrong about.
I am in fact European.

Is Adultery right? well no. 
Neither is it a crime. Its like cheating on your significant other, not nice, but shouldn't be punishable by law.