(January 3, 2019 at 2:03 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

Quote:As Eye witness testimony is one of the hardest evidence to refute in a court of law

What.

I agree "What"?

Any lawyer worth their weight prosecuting or defending, wants as few witnesses as possible. The more people that take the stand the more opportunity for the other side to pick the arguments apart.

I hate this argument that "witness" observation is the same as scientific observation. 

Our species perceptions are notoriously flawed. It is literally why one can walk into a squeaky clean glass door thinking it is open when it is not. Science is the ability to determine if the door is open or not and not simply rely on claims.

Trying to equate courts to scientific method is stupid.

I once went to traffic court and prior to mere traffic tickets, the docket put forth arraignment of case like theft robbery ect ect. So this one case was called, a cab driver swore under oath that the accused robbed him. I remember him being dead serious certain the guy accused was the guy who robbed him. BUT, the accused family members, one after the other, got on the stand and swore he was at home watching TV with him. The judge wasn't buying the accused story, but his hands were tied because no evidence was presented in that arraignment that the family members were lying. So the charges were dropped.

As far as holy writings it is possible that the writers are making up myth and lying to over conflate numbers to sell a story.

Observation in scientific method is not like a court.

(January 3, 2019 at 12:23 pm)Nihilist Virus Wrote:

(January 3, 2019 at 10:49 am)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: What are you talking about? You have yet to post one thing that validates your claims.  Where are you suggesting the bible tells people to take slaves for life just because?  Also, where does it suggest that it's okay to abuse them?  If you're going to make claims, maybe assert evidence for them. 

Context is everything.  If you have to change it to get the results you want, then there was no point in reading it in the first place.

Leviticus 25:44-46.  You can own a slave as property and you can own them for life.  Provided they're a foreigner, as the Bible is racist.  Exodus 21:2 says you can only own a Jewish man for 6 years.

Exodus 21:20-21.  You can beat your slaves as long as you don't kill them. Sounds like a green light for abuse to me.

Like I said. It's 2019.  What is your excuse for making me spell all of this out?  We've all seen this before.

Again, context is important.  Instead of just posting the scripture and looking at what it meant in context, you posted your interpretation.  What you are reading in Exodus 21 is Moses speaking about formal ordinances.  It's not encouraging violence against slaves, but addressing the terms to which there would be a judicial ruling against a party.  The issue with female servants is because they were sold as wives, which is why they wouldn't have been released in the seventh year.  They weren't married to their male slaves, so they were free to go, but they could willfully stay.  Many slaves had a financial obligation, so their work was also seen as "money" and that's how it was looked at judicially.  How we apply these things today is different.  

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

The best way to understand Christian requirements by God's law is to look at two things (Ten Commandments + Greatest Commandments). With the Ten Commandments, the first four are a direct responsibility to God, and the last six are our responsibility to each other.  Of course Jesus simplified it even more by saying to love God with all of your heart, soul, and mind, which encompasses the first four (greatest commandment), and to love your neighbor as yourself, which encompasses the last six.

(January 3, 2019 at 4:21 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(January 3, 2019 at 12:23 pm)Nihilist Virus Wrote: Leviticus 25:44-46.  You can own a slave as property and you can own them for life.  Provided they're a foreigner, as the Bible is racist.  Exodus 21:2 says you can only own a Jewish man for 6 years.

Exodus 21:20-21.  You can beat your slaves as long as you don't kill them. Sounds like a green light for abuse to me.

Like I said. It's 2019.  What is your excuse for making me spell all of this out?  We've all seen this before.

Again, context is important.  Instead of just posting the scripture and looking at what it meant in context, you posted your interpretation.  What you are reading in Exodus 21 is Moses speaking about formal ordinances.  It's not encouraging violence against slaves, but addressing the terms to which there would be a judicial ruling against a party.  The issue with female servants is because they were sold as wives, which is why they wouldn't have been released in the seventh year.  They weren't married to their male slaves, so they were free to go, but they could willfully stay.  Many slaves had a financial obligation, so their work was also seen as "money" and that's how it was looked at judicially.  How we apply these things today is different.  

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

The best way to understand Christian requirements by God's law is to look at two things (Ten Commandments + Greatest Commandments). With the Ten Commandments, the first four are a direct responsibility to God, and the last six are our responsibility to each other.  Of course Jesus simplified it even more by saying to love God with all of your heart, soul, and mind, which encompasses the first four (greatest commandment), and to love your neighbor as yourself, which encompasses the last six.

Will you look at that?

The first 4 commandments are about kissing ass, and only after you do that, he will consider you. Not exactly altruistic if you ask me. Seems like a PR campaign.

Your top priority as the boss is to make sure everyone kisses your ass? Yea, ok, not a boss I want running any business I work for. I am glad FDR didn't talk like Trump. We'd all be speaking German now.

It's just a story Max.  The problem that all god botherers have is purely literary, getting caught up in the denotation of a metaphor rather than it's connotation.

Maybe "jesus" ought to write New New Magic book, and whittle it down to one? "Don't be a dick".

(January 3, 2019 at 4:39 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 3, 2019 at 4:21 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Again, context is important.  Instead of just posting the scripture and looking at what it meant in context, you posted your interpretation.  What you are reading in Exodus 21 is Moses speaking about formal ordinances.  It's not encouraging violence against slaves, but addressing the terms to which there would be a judicial ruling against a party.  The issue with female servants is because they were sold as wives, which is why they wouldn't have been released in the seventh year.  They weren't married to their male slaves, so they were free to go, but they could willfully stay.  Many slaves had a financial obligation, so their work was also seen as "money" and that's how it was looked at judicially.  How we apply these things today is different.  

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

The best way to understand Christian requirements by God's law is to look at two things (Ten Commandments + Greatest Commandments). With the Ten Commandments, the first four are a direct responsibility to God, and the last six are our responsibility to each other.  Of course Jesus simplified it even more by saying to love God with all of your heart, soul, and mind, which encompasses the first four (greatest commandment), and to love your neighbor as yourself, which encompasses the last six.

Will you look at that?

The first 4 commandments are about kissing ass, and only after you do that, he will consider you. Not exactly altruistic if you ask me. Seems like a PR campaign.

Your top priority as the boss is to make sure everyone kisses your ass? Yea, ok, not a boss I want running any business I work for. I am glad FDR didn't talk like Trump. We'd all be speaking German now.

Not at all.  It establishes relationship.  First 4 - relationship to God.  Last 6 - relationship to fellow man.

It is about community and family.  At the heart of Christianity, that is what it is meant to look like.  How it's presented many times, not so much.

My parents gave my brother and I various rules to follow.  Had nothing to do with kissing up to them.  If one of us broke a rule, they dealt with us but in a loving way.  If it weren't for those rules, then there would've been no standard for order, and that disorder would extend beyond the household.  Sometimes there was a penalty, but it wasn't because they wanted there to be, but because it reinforced the rule and I knew not to try it again.  Perfect love is unconditional and it didn't matter how many times I broke the rules, they still loved me the same.  God does the same for us.

(January 3, 2019 at 1:53 pm)Drich Wrote: something as simple as a memory can be considered transdimensional as it is outside of space and time.

False.  Memories are stored and recalled in neurons, which exist inside time and space.

Quote:it may represent a moment in time and in space but that time and space no longer exists therefore the existence of a memory exists outside of time and space.

A memory is not a perfect recreation of the events being remembered.  The fact that the events being remembered are no longer occurring is not relevant to anything whatsoever.

You do understand that the universe does not rewind itself and replay events when you attempt to recall them, right?

Quote:If memories can be considered outside time and space

Your conditional statement fails.

Quote:then truly how far of a leap is it to also to consider a dream to be outside time and space.

That would be a leap from reality.  Dreams occur in the brain.  Brains take up dimensions of space.  Brains are not transdimensional.  But who knows... you're pretty out there... maybe yours is.

Quote:a dream we are conscious in put our being in a extra dimension even if it is as common as a dream dimension. But also keep in mind we could very well spend most of our lives in this world rather than in the waking world. Which by at least a loose definition makes you a trans dimensional being.

Again don't get anal about any of this I simply point out it is possible if you play with your definition just a little bit.

Dimensions pertain to height, width, and length.  And time.  Perhaps more higher dimensions on top.  There's no wiggle room there.  Nothing about dreams.

Quote:As far as immaterial goes both dreams and memories are immaterial

No.  They are experiences resulting from physical processes in the brain.  That's material.

Quote:yet you can exist in both of these realms.. So then the nature of conscious can float between a realm of time and space and a realm without the confines of time and space as our core nature is immaterial.

2 questions.  What are you taking?  And will you share with the rest of the class?

Quote:As far as morality goes nothing in the bible grants you immortality aside from God himself. So if God says you are immortal then I guess you are other wise know you are by nature a finite being.

Hold on.  Let me get this straight.  You don't believe souls are intrinsically immortal?  Then that means that Jehovah not only sends souls into eternal conscious torment, but he is the very source that keeps them alive?  They could eventually just cease to exist after a hundred trillion years, but no, that's not enough suffering.  

Quote:So how exactly are these 'trigger words again?' and to whom are they made to stump? seems to me only the closed minded with a singular world bsolutest view seem trapped by the meaning of your words.. other wise easy peasie

So you're OK with self-identifying as a transdimensional, immortal, immaterial entity which will be reincarnated on another planet?

---

(January 3, 2019 at 4:21 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(January 3, 2019 at 12:23 pm)Nihilist Virus Wrote: Leviticus 25:44-46.  You can own a slave as property and you can own them for life.  Provided they're a foreigner, as the Bible is racist.  Exodus 21:2 says you can only own a Jewish man for 6 years.

Exodus 21:20-21.  You can beat your slaves as long as you don't kill them. Sounds like a green light for abuse to me.

Like I said. It's 2019.  What is your excuse for making me spell all of this out?  We've all seen this before.

Again, context is important.  Instead of just posting the scripture and looking at what it meant in context, you posted your interpretation.  What you are reading in Exodus 21 is Moses speaking about formal ordinances.  It's not encouraging violence against slaves, but addressing the terms to which there would be a judicial ruling against a party.  The issue with female servants is because they were sold as wives, which is why they wouldn't have been released in the seventh year.  They weren't married to their male slaves, so they were free to go, but they could willfully stay.  Many slaves had a financial obligation, so their work was also seen as "money" and that's how it was looked at judicially.  How we apply these things today is different.  

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

The best way to understand Christian requirements by God's law is to look at two things (Ten Commandments + Greatest Commandments). With the Ten Commandments, the first four are a direct responsibility to God, and the last six are our responsibility to each other.  Of course Jesus simplified it even more by saying to love God with all of your heart, soul, and mind, which encompasses the first four (greatest commandment), and to love your neighbor as yourself, which encompasses the last six.

You asked for the sources and I gave them. Now you're moving the goalposts. Not to mention you're off topic to begin with.

(January 3, 2019 at 5:19 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: It's just a story Max.  The problem that all god botherers have is purely literary, getting caught up in the denotation of a metaphor rather than it's connotation.

Maybe "jesus" ought to write  New New Magic book, and whittle it down to one?  "Don't be a dick".

When you boil all ideology down to it's core, politically, economically or religiously, it all amounts to "I am entitled to be a dick, because I need resources".

(January 3, 2019 at 10:50 am)Brian37 Wrote: There is no such thing as "true forum", as intended by ancient philosophy. "True forum" is simply another way of re stating Plato's bad idea of "essence".

Agreed! 

We must not expect truth from a forum.

(January 3, 2019 at 7:47 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 3, 2019 at 5:19 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: It's just a story Max.  The problem that all god botherers have is purely literary, getting caught up in the denotation of a metaphor rather than it's connotation.

Maybe "jesus" ought to write  New New Magic book, and whittle it down to one?  "Don't be a dick".

When you boil all ideology down to it's core, politically, economically or religiously, it all amounts to "I am entitled to be a dick, because I need resources".

Not even logical.  When you abuse certain ideologies, they can become toxic, but that doesn't mean they are in and of themselves.

Quote:Not at all.  It establishes relationship.  First 4 - relationship to God.  Last 6 - relationship to fellow man.

It is about community and family.  At the heart of Christianity, that is what it is meant to look like.  How it's presented many times, not so much.

My parents gave my brother and I various rules to follow.  Had nothing to do with kissing up to them.  If one of us broke a rule, they dealt with us but in a loving way.  If it weren't for those rules, then there would've been no standard for order, and that disorder would extend beyond the household.  Sometimes there was a penalty, but it wasn't because they wanted there to be, but because it reinforced the rule and I knew not to try it again.  Perfect love is unconditional and it didn't matter how many times I broke the rules, they still loved me the same.  God does the same for us.

Rubbish