Boru, no sorry. Our firearm violence problem is a long term issue and failure of action by congress because of the hostage holding by one party, one lobby and one industry.

(January 24, 2019 at 10:47 am)Brian37 Wrote: Boru, no sorry. Our firearm violence problem is a long term issue and failure of action by congress because of the hostage holding by one party, one lobby and one industry.

Fine.  Let's talk about this recent shooting in Florida.  Can we at least agree that you don't have enough information (at this point) to know where and how this murderer acquired the gun(s) he used?

Boru

And during this 40 years problem -- only one party has been in charge - right?????

(January 24, 2019 at 11:00 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(January 24, 2019 at 10:47 am)Brian37 Wrote: Boru, no sorry. Our firearm violence problem is a long term issue and failure of action by congress because of the hostage holding by one party, one lobby and one industry.

Fine.  Let's talk about this recent shooting in Florida.  Can we at least agree that you don't have enough information (at this point) to know where and how this murderer acquired the gun(s) he used?

Boru

No, sorry, the issue that needs to be faced is what I said. We need to stop allowing one industry, one lobby and one party controlling the narrative.

You won't be able to effectively keep them out of the wrong hands, as long as we let those 3 groups monopolize our laws.

Unless you face the bigger picture first, you wont be able to address individual situations.

No different than a farmer over tilling their field long term and depleting the nutrients to the point the soil is useless. 

Nothing you want to suggest now is going to work effectively unless the long term climate/attitude changes.

I am all for solutions, I am simply saying to get to those solutions you have to look at the long term picture.

(January 24, 2019 at 2:55 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 24, 2019 at 11:00 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Fine.  Let's talk about this recent shooting in Florida.  Can we at least agree that you don't have enough information (at this point) to know where and how this murderer acquired the gun(s) he used?

Boru

No, sorry, the issue that needs to be faced is what I said. We need to stop allowing one industry, one lobby and one party controlling the narrative.

You won't be able to effectively keep them out of the wrong hands, as long as we let those 3 groups monopolize our laws.

Unless you face the bigger picture first, you wont be able to address individual situations.

No different than a farmer over tilling their field long term and depleting the nutrients to the point the soil is useless. 

Nothing you want to suggest now is going to work effectively unless the long term climate/attitude changes.

I am all for solutions, I am simply saying to get to those solutions you have to look at the long term picture.

YOU started this thread about the shooting in Florida.  Now you don't want to talk about it?  I'm not trying to 'suggest' anything at all.  I just want to know how YOU know how this particular man armed himself.

Boru

I can tell you how he armed himself in Florida.  Easily. 

(January 24, 2019 at 3:39 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(January 24, 2019 at 2:55 pm)Brian37 Wrote: No, sorry, the issue that needs to be faced is what I said. We need to stop allowing one industry, one lobby and one party controlling the narrative.

You won't be able to effectively keep them out of the wrong hands, as long as we let those 3 groups monopolize our laws.

Unless you face the bigger picture first, you wont be able to address individual situations.

No different than a farmer over tilling their field long term and depleting the nutrients to the point the soil is useless. 

Nothing you want to suggest now is going to work effectively unless the long term climate/attitude changes.

I am all for solutions, I am simply saying to get to those solutions you have to look at the long term picture.

YOU started this thread about the shooting in Florida.  Now you don't want to talk about it?  I'm not trying to 'suggest' anything at all.  I just want to know how YOU know how this particular man armed himself.

Boru

Holy crap, only in the context that it was the most recent as part of a long term pattern of not facing a harsh truth.

If it had happened in California, I would have said California. Wait a few weeks or months, it will happen somewhere else in another state.

---

(January 24, 2019 at 9:25 am)tackattack Wrote: ease of access, flooded market, and crappy vetting laws might very well have played a part, or not. I agree with Brian (WHAT!!) though that those things do worsen what seems like a pandemic. Lots of stories about people selling tons of guns without licenses, shootings, suicides, accidental shotguns from the backseat, etc.

Not "very well have," DID AND DO!

And the only way to reduce firearm violence is to get the money out of congress that protects greedy people. The same can be said for too much power by corporations in general. Firearm companies are businesses like Exxon and Walmart, and as long as people with money bully congress, the rest of us are at their mercy.

^^^^^ None of what I just typed is a call to ban 100% of all firearms, much less end the private sector in general. Just simply pointing out where the majority of our nations problems stem from. 

America's decline started with Reagan's deregulation and "don't tax the rich". Firearm companies are simply one industry that has benefited from 37 years of GOP dominating the narrative.

If you want to know where a problem is, follow the money.

My goal isn't to turn America into Cuba or ban all firearms, but to get us back to REASONABLE laws that are agreed on by all, not one sect, not one lobby or party. 

Right now we don't have that.

You insist on missing my point.  I don't want to debate gun control or the NRA or Republicans or the NFL or mattress tags or whatever else is twisting your alans this week.  I'll try my question a different way:

Is it at all POSSIBLE that the shooter in Florida obtained his firearm in a manner unrelated to a flooded firearms market, ease of access, or poor vetting?  I'm not asking if he DID obtain it that way - only if it is with the realm of possibility that he did.

Please refer to this post frequently while you type your answer.

Boru

Not in florida, no.

Quote:For more than a year, the state of Florida failed to review national background checks on tens of thousands of applications for concealed weapons permits, potentially allowing drug addicts or people with a mental illness to carry firearms in public.

https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politic...nt-log-in/

Quote:In New York and New Jersey, which have some of the strictest laws in the country, more than two-thirds of guns tied to criminal activity were traced to out-of-state purchases in 2014. Many were brought in via the so-called Iron Pipeline, made up of Interstate 95 and its tributary highways, from Southern states with weaker gun laws, like Virginia, Georgia and Florida.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015...-laws.html

Quote:The Iron Pipeline is the route in the United States used to smuggle weapons from ten states mostly in the Southern United States[1] to Mid-Atlantic states and New England,[2] particularly states with stricter gun laws such as New York and New Jersey.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Pipeline

In florida, there's nothing about guns that isn't designed to facilitate this business up above.  Florida is the amazon fulfillment center of guns..and because of this, and the ability of buyers and sellers to launder straw/gift/straw purchases through retail outlets, while I understand your point and think it's completely true in general, the chances of this guy arming himself in a way that has nothing to do with those issues is effectively nill.

(January 24, 2019 at 7:11 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: You insist on missing my point.  I don't want to debate gun control or the NRA or Republicans or the NFL or mattress tags or whatever else is twisting your alans this week.  I'll try my question a different way:

Is it at all POSSIBLE that the shooter in Florida obtained his firearm in a manner unrelated to a flooded firearms market, ease of access, or poor vetting?  I'm not asking if he DID obtain it that way - only if it is with the realm of possibility that he did.

Please refer to this post frequently while you type your answer.

Boru

Again, cant solve day to day issues if you are not looking at the generational attitude.

The point remains he picked up a firearm and killed people with it. With the wild west attitude that is holding America hostage access is the ultimate problem.