I just turned it on to find out, no more kickoffs.  Ok, to some degree I get it, it is a money/injury/insurance issue. But why have it at all then? 

I get it, but at the same time I also don't want to see the sport turned into flag football. This makes me wonder if the NFL is going to eventually get rid of kick offs even for regular season games.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...ck-returns

Yes, they have talked about doing that because kick-offs result in an inordinate amount of concussions.

I really don't get your attitude. Based on what we know now, the NFL is simply unethical. Why not have gladiators fighting to the death for entertainment? These guys are being destroyed by this, "sport." How long do you think they can continue with business as usual before the populace decides it is ethically untenable?

We don't allow cock fighting. Michael Vick was jailed for his participation in dog fighting. Yet we have human beings slowly destroying their brains for entertainment.

I don't know if the NFL can retain its appeal if it gets reduced to flag football but I very much doubt if it can survive without some form of major change.

(January 27, 2019 at 6:40 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: Yes, they have talked about doing that because kick-offs result in an inordinate amount of concussions.

I really don't get your attitude. Based on what we know now, the NFL is simply unethical. Why not have gladiators fighting to the death for entertainment? These guys are being destroyed by this, "sport." How long do you think they can continue with business as usual before the populace decides it is ethically untenable?

We don't allow cock fighting. Michael Vick was jailed for his participation in dog fighting. Yet we have human beings slowly destroying their brains for entertainment.

I don't know if the NFL can retain its appeal if it gets reduced to flag football but I very much doubt if it can survive without some form of major change.

Oh don't get me wrong. Re read my post, I said I get it. And even without concussions every injury ads up in costs. It is a violent contact sport for sure.

(January 27, 2019 at 9:31 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 27, 2019 at 6:40 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: Yes, they have talked about doing that because kick-offs result in an inordinate amount of concussions.

I really don't get your attitude. Based on what we know now, the NFL is simply unethical. Why not have gladiators fighting to the death for entertainment? These guys are being destroyed by this, "sport." How long do you think they can continue with business as usual before the populace decides it is ethically untenable?

We don't allow cock fighting. Michael Vick was jailed for his participation in dog fighting. Yet we have human beings slowly destroying their brains for entertainment.

I don't know if the NFL can retain its appeal if it gets reduced to flag football but I very much doubt if it can survive without some form of major change.

Oh don't get me wrong. Re read my post, I said I get it. And even without concussions every injury ads up in costs. It is a violent contact sport for sure.

So what to do about it?

I know it's fun to watch but now we know it's killing the participants. Do you really think business as usual is a viable and ethical option?

I don't. I would consider the loss of the NFL as regrettable but I just don't see it as acceptable that we are recruiting gladiators to kill themselves for our entertainment.

Maybe there is an equipment solution to this problem or maybe there are rule changes we could live with. But is it really acceptable to continue business as usual, knowing what we know now?

I dunno. Sucks getting injured, but it's great getting rich and wading waste-high in bitches.

Sucks to be in the hospital, but also sucks to be in the projects without one avenue of battling your way out.

Hmmmm.

Soldiers know they are going to get hurt, but they choose that job. Football players know they are going to get hurt, but they choose that job. Coal miners and fishermen know their jobs are very dangerous, but they do it for the money.

What, in particular, is worse about playing a game you love, with legitimate chances of injury or death, or doing those other jobs, which people probably love a lot less?

(January 28, 2019 at 4:52 am)bennyboy Wrote: I dunno.  Sucks getting injured, but it's great getting rich and wading waste-high in bitches.

Sucks to be in the hospital, but also sucks to be in the projects without one avenue of battling your way out.

Hmmmm.

Soldiers know they are going to get hurt, but they choose that job.  Football players know they are going to get hurt, but they choose that job.  Coal miners and fishermen know their jobs are very dangerous, but they do it for the money.

What, in particular, is worse about playing a game you love, with legitimate chances of injury or death, or doing those other jobs, which people probably love a lot less?

Just because someone knows something is dangerous does not mean the authorities/leaders/ and in the private sector business owners, have no obligation to make the work environment safer. OSHA was established for just that reason. Regulations are why you cant smoke in a coal mine. And the tobacco industry lied for decades about the health risks of smoking. Car companies drug their feet after NADER told them their products were garbage. Regulations are why we don't have 3rd world child labor. I doubt you are going to stop cage fighting or boxing either. 

There certainly is a right to do risky things yes, but there is also a balance to the cost of the care of that risk.

(January 28, 2019 at 7:48 am)Brian37 Wrote: There certainly is a right to do risky things yes, but there is also a balance to the cost of the care of that risk.

I think we are tribal, war-mongering chimps at heart, and it is only if there is a real sense of danger that football can remain popular. Other sports, like basketball, rely on acrobatic displays-- but I don't think football can really be other than it is and still keep interest.

I'm fine with football just disappearing forever, and more skill-based game taking over. But I'm also fine with gladiatorial bloodsports with real deaths if that's what people want to do. Fuck-- it's not me, it's their lives, so long as they have a free choice, I don't think the government has to regulate everything.

(January 28, 2019 at 7:53 am)bennyboy Wrote:

(January 28, 2019 at 7:48 am)Brian37 Wrote: There certainly is a right to do risky things yes, but there is also a balance to the cost of the care of that risk.

I think we are tribal, war-mongering chimps at heart, and it is only if there is a real sense of danger that football can remain popular.  Other sports, like basketball, rely on acrobatic displays-- but I don't think football can really be other than it is and still keep interest.

I'm fine with football just disappearing forever, and more skill-based game taking over.  But I'm also fine with gladiatorial bloodsports with real deaths if that's what people want to do.  Fuck-- it's not me, it's their lives, so long as they have a free choice, I don't think the government has to regulate everything.

Evolution produces competition, yes. But it also produces cooperation and nurture and curiosity which leads humans to find safer ways to do things.