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RE: No reason justifies disbelief.
March 18, 2019 at 11:01 am
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2019 at 11:07 am by Simon Moon.)
(March 18, 2019 at 7:57 am)Catharsis Wrote: Why do you think reasoned disbelief for Bigfoot is the same as for the creator?
Neither has demonstrable evidence, reasoned argument, and valid and sound logic to support the claims. On that basis, they are both in the same set; the set of all unsupported claims.
Quote:When it comes to the creator there is no reasoned disbelief.
You have the burden of proof, time to start supporting your claim that there is no reasoned disbelief. Until you support your claim that disbelief in a creator god is unreasoned, all you have is an unwarranted claim.
I have heard and studied ALL the evidence and 'logical' arguments for the existence of gods, none of them hold up to scrutiny. They are all fallacious.
Cosmological arguments, teleological arguments, ontological arguments, presuppositional arguments all are fallacious.
(March 18, 2019 at 10:36 am)Catharsis Wrote: (March 18, 2019 at 10:33 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Show your work or that's just another unsupported assertion. If you've managed to do what no theologian before you has ever done, and produced an argument for the existence of a creator deity with sound premises and no fallacies that stands up to scrutiny. I'd really love to see it.
Everything has a beginning and an end here.
A beginning would suggest a creator.
creator
/kriːˈeɪtə/
noun
noun: creator; plural noun: creators
a person or thing that brings something into existence.
Sorry, it doesn't work like that. That is the fallacy of argument from ignorance. "I can't think of any other way the universe could have started, therefore it must be a god". When it is possible to substitute the word "magic" in place of your god, and your explanation gains or loses no explanatory power, you have not explained anything.
You can't point at a result and then claim a cause. You have to demonstrate the cause.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: No reason justifies disbelief.
March 18, 2019 at 11:07 am
(March 18, 2019 at 11:01 am)Simon Moon Wrote: (March 18, 2019 at 7:57 am)Catharsis Wrote: Why do you think reasoned disbelief for Bigfoot is the same as for the creator?
Neither has demonstrable evidence, reasoned argument, and valid and sound logic to support the claims. On that basis, they are both in the same set; the set of all unsupported claims.
Quote:When it comes to the creator there is no reasoned disbelief.
You have the burden of proof, time to start supporting your claim that there is no reasoned disbelief. Until you support your claim that disbelief in a creator god is unreasoned, all you have is an unwarranted claim.
I have heard and studied ALL the evidence and 'logical' arguments for the existence of gods, none of them hold up to scrutiny. They are all fallacious.
Cosmological arguments, teleological arguments, ontological arguments, presuppositional arguments all are fallacious.
Perhaps that's because you don't posses logic and sound reason.
There's nothing that will help you.
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RE: No reason justifies disbelief.
March 18, 2019 at 11:10 am
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2019 at 11:11 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(March 18, 2019 at 6:18 am)Catharsis Wrote: Any reason which causes disbelief would be intellectual dishonesty.
Reason does not cause disbelief. Such claims are ridiculous.
Meh, maybe, but so what? Won't make these ridiculous "creator" stories any less fictional.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: No reason justifies disbelief.
March 18, 2019 at 11:13 am
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2019 at 11:14 am by Simon Moon.)
(March 18, 2019 at 11:07 am)Catharsis Wrote: (March 18, 2019 at 11:01 am)Simon Moon Wrote: Neither has demonstrable evidence, reasoned argument, and valid and sound logic to support the claims. On that basis, they are both in the same set; the set of all unsupported claims.
You have the burden of proof, time to start supporting your claim that there is no reasoned disbelief. Until you support your claim that disbelief in a creator god is unreasoned, all you have is an unwarranted claim.
I have heard and studied ALL the evidence and 'logical' arguments for the existence of gods, none of them hold up to scrutiny. They are all fallacious.
Cosmological arguments, teleological arguments, ontological arguments, presuppositional arguments all are fallacious.
Perhaps that's because you don't posses logic and sound reason.
There's nothing that will help you.
I am quite proficient in basic logic.
I have no problems finding fallacies in all the 'best' arguments for the existence in gods.
Oh, but please educate us with your prowess in logic. Because so far, all I've seen is you making unsupported claims.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: No reason justifies disbelief.
March 18, 2019 at 11:17 am
(March 18, 2019 at 6:18 am)Catharsis Wrote: Any reason which causes disbelief would be intellectual dishonesty.
Reason does not cause disbelief. Such claims are ridiculous.
And you don't justify your disbelief, rudeness and hate with claims of being reasonable.
So, you’ll have to explain why it’s dishonest and ridiculous; not just assert that it’s the case. Otherwise this isn’t isn’t really a discussion, is it?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: No reason justifies disbelief.
March 18, 2019 at 11:19 am
(March 18, 2019 at 7:57 am)Catharsis Wrote: (March 18, 2019 at 7:47 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I thought I had, but I'll have another go.
Reasoned disbelief is the rejection of a proposition when there is neither convincing evidence nor compelling arguments to support the proposition. Let's do Bigfoot as an example. I disbelieve in Bigfoot because the evidence for Bigfoot simply isn't there - no bodies, no bones, no adolescents, no scat, no hair, no nothing. Believers use all manner of specious arguments to explain away this (for them) disturbing lack of evidence: Bigfeet are too smart to get caught; Bigfeet are hyperdimensional beings; Bigfeet are aliens; and so on. Given the non-existence of evidence and the non-compelling nature of the explanations, I make the reasoned choice to disbelieve that Bigfeet exist.
To be fair, there is also 'unreasoned disbelief'. Things like, 'I don't believe in Bigfeet because I'VE never seen one' or 'My spirit animal told be not to believe in Bigfeet.'
Hope this helps.
Boru
Why do you think reasoned disbelief for Bigfoot is the same as for the creator?
When it comes to the creator there is no reasoned disbelief.
Why do think it’s not the same? You have work to do.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: No reason justifies disbelief.
March 18, 2019 at 11:19 am
And now were back to the place where Cathy needs to tell us what the creator "is" that would separate it from any other fantasy conception.
I do know the beginning of a circle jerk.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
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RE: No reason justifies disbelief.
March 18, 2019 at 11:20 am
The arguments are getting weaker with this one.
What's next, "If you don't believe me I'll pack a sad!!"?
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: No reason justifies disbelief.
March 18, 2019 at 11:21 am
(March 18, 2019 at 9:52 am)Catharsis Wrote: (March 18, 2019 at 8:23 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: It is the same for any proposition.
Then you'll need to supply either convincing evidence or compelling arguments (or both) for a creator.
Boru
How do you think everything came into existence?
How do you think everything came into existence?
Boy, you have a lot of work to do.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: No reason justifies disbelief.
March 18, 2019 at 11:36 am
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2019 at 11:40 am by Catharsis.)
(March 18, 2019 at 11:13 am)Simon Moon Wrote: (March 18, 2019 at 11:07 am)Catharsis Wrote: Perhaps that's because you don't posses logic and sound reason.
There's nothing that will help you.
I am quite proficient in basic logic.
I have no problems finding fallacies in all the 'best' arguments for the existence in gods.
Oh, but please educate us with your prowess in logic. Because so far, all I've seen is you making unsupported claims.
I think you only see what you want to see. I suggest some thinking on your own.
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