(April 13, 2019 at 7:51 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Tent years ago yet you post about how aggression (rage) in men should be accepted.

That's right. It's an important part of our evolutionary kit, and is not a sign of malformation. Demonizing people for an expression of evolved traits is unfair and unproductive.

That doesn't mean we want to encourage people to rage, though. Saying men come by rage honestly isn't the same as saying it's not harmful, or (to be fair) not one of the most serious problems the human species faces.

Quote:You didn't learn shit.  Don't act like you are the one who knows best how to handle emotions.  

You don't realize that the corner you are painting yourself into gets smaller and smaller the more you reveal.  

I doubt many here believe you are concerned that Yon is out their considering opening a vein.

As I said, you can believe whatever you want about my motivations or my sincerity. But do you disagree with what I'm saying? Do you disagree that using deliberately demeaning language, especially toward someone in a group known to have psychological difficulties, is something we can do without?

This forum errs on the side of free speech, by far-- and I think that's why we're here for the most part. But being ABLE to say really harsh stuff doesn't mean that we should.

(April 13, 2019 at 8:08 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(April 13, 2019 at 7:51 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Tent years ago yet you post about how aggression (rage) in men should be accepted.

That's right.  It's an important part of our evolutionary kit, and is not a sign of malformation.  Demonizing people for an expression of evolved traits is unfair and unproductive.

That doesn't mean we want to encourage people to rage, though.  Saying men come by rage honestly isn't the same as saying it's not harmful, or (to be fair) not one of the most serious problems the human species faces.

Quote:You didn't learn shit.  Don't act like you are the one who knows best how to handle emotions.  

You don't realize that the corner you are painting yourself into gets smaller and smaller the more you reveal.  

I doubt many here believe you are concerned that Yon is out their considering opening a vein.

As I said, you can believe whatever you want about my motivations or my sincerity.  But do you disagree with what I'm saying?  Do you disagree that using deliberately demeaning language, especially toward someone in a group known to have psychological difficulties, is something we can do without?

This forum errs on the side of free speech, by far-- and I think that's why we're here for the most part.  But being ABLE to say really harsh stuff doesn't mean that we should.

As said earlier...you aren't the person for interpersonal advice.

Too delicate for strong language?  Well, suck it up Buttercup...sometimes that's how people express themselves.

(April 13, 2019 at 7:51 pm)Thoreauvian Wrote: He had the bad habit of telling other people what their "real motivations" were and what they were "really thinking."  Although his mind-reading was mostly inaccurate (as people tried to point out again and again), he never learned humility toward others and their opinions.

I agree with you that mind-reading is bad. 

You have done it to me so much that I have given up calling you out on it. It is clearly habitual.

Most recently yesterday, when I told you the truth as I see it based on decades of intense experience, and you replied that I was "rationalizing" for reasons you imagined.

This is something we see a lot on this forum: it's OK to do if you are attacking the right people. Bad to do if you're attacking the wrong people.

(April 12, 2019 at 11:42 pm)bennyboy Wrote: I really think people have to be careful with this kind of language.  Even if someone is offensive, using this kind of language without knowing their background is dangerous.

For example, if Yonadav is really post-op MTF trans, and knowing the stats about suicide for that group of people, is it really necessary to go that far with your language?  I think "I really don't like many of the opinions he expressed" should be sufficient.  But to go from X DID to X IS is to go from disagreement to demonization or dehumanization.  It really isn't necessary, and I'd suggest being more politic.

Another example-- I've been called a piece of shit several times in these forums.  I understand why people have said that-- they disagree with me on issues that are deeply personal and important to them.  But my mother also called me a piece of shit extremely often, and I was passed from family to family like a hot potato, an experience I found deeply dehumanizing.  Given my struggles with mood, and increased tendencies toward suicidal thought-- I'd ask, am I hated enough that the eagerness to put me in my place is really that important?  I know that for at least some here, the answer is yes, and in my opinion it shouldn't be.

All the misfits and twisted souls that end up on the internet-- you don't know what humanity is behind those comments or those positions.  I really would recommend erring on the side of restraint, rather than using those people as your target for venting.

Hehe....What a crock of manipulative horseshit. Now you're low-key suggesting that you (or Yon) could be driven kill yourselves if you aren't given free reign to spew your hostile racist/misogynistic fuckshit without being called out as pieces of shit? Lol...sure.

Even if so...
 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  Too bad, so sad, but that'd be on you.

Life breaks us all, Snowflake.You're a grown fucking man.
You don't  get a free pass to broadbrush, malign,  and attack people unchecked because of having "increased suicidal tendencies" and a mommy who mistreated you. 

If your psyche is truly so fragile that it can't withstand push-back without sending you to the fucking brink, then my advice to you would be quit pushing.
No one's forcing you to go online and  talk shit. That's your choice.

(April 13, 2019 at 8:55 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Hehe....What a crock of manipulative horseshit. Now you're low-key suggesting that you (or Yon) could be driven kill yourselves if you aren't given free reign to spew your hostile racist/misogynistic fuckshit without being called out as pieces of shit? Lol...sure.

Case in point. Let me ask you-- what's in it for you to talk this way? Is it a way to work out stress by venting? Are you imagining some actual people who did you actual harm and using me as a proxy? What misogynistic thing have I ever said?

I'm supposing that's the case, actually-- you have a lot of legitimate anger that you're bringing in from outside, and I present a good chance for you to express those feelings. If so. . . bring it!

I'd rather to actually get to know about you, and why you have these very strong feelings, though. Can we change gears and talk about it?

---

(April 13, 2019 at 8:29 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: As said earlier...you aren't the person for interpersonal advice.

Too delicate for strong language?  Well, suck it up Buttercup...sometimes that's how people express themselves.

Unless I'm not considered a member of this community, then I'm perfectly within my rights to discuss how members of the community express themselves. I think a little more restraint would lead to better discussions and have no disadvantage.

It's one thing to express discontent, or to get mad in the heat of a debate and say "You're being an asshole" or something. It's another thing to use dehumanizing language with the express intent of hurting someone.

---

(April 13, 2019 at 8:55 pm)Thena323 Wrote: You don't  get a free pass to broadbrush, malign,  and attack people unchecked because of having "increased suicidal tendencies" and a mommy who mistreated you. 

Whom have I broad-brushed, maligned, or attacked? I don't think that ever happened.

And I'm not doing this because I feel I personally am being mistreated, though I'd say your over-the-top displays of aggression in particular border on verbal assault. I think, in general, it would be better if we erred on the side of tolerance rather than vehemence. In this case, I've been deeply interested in Yonadav since I heard that he's trans (I never would have guessed it in a million years!), and I wanted to know how that relates to the positions he takes. But the toxicity has meant that I'm unlikely ever to find out.

(April 13, 2019 at 8:32 pm)Belaqua Wrote:

(April 13, 2019 at 7:51 pm)Thoreauvian Wrote: He had the bad habit of telling other people what their "real motivations" were and what they were "really thinking."  Although his mind-reading was mostly inaccurate (as people tried to point out again and again), he never learned humility toward others and their opinions.

I agree with you that mind-reading is bad. 

You have done it to me so much that I have given up calling you out on it. It is clearly habitual.

Most recently yesterday, when I told you the truth as I see it based on decades of intense experience, and you replied that I was "rationalizing" for reasons you imagined.

This is something we see a lot on this forum: it's OK to do if you are attacking the right people. Bad to do if you're attacking the wrong people.

Fair enough.

So you are claiming your assessments of the arts are accurate and mine are not?  Okay.

I agree that your assessments are common in the arts.  I still don't agree with those assessments.

I think that's a little different than mind-reading which is repeated after corrections are offered.

Funny how you mention people using anonymity as a shield to say what they want, but I'm pretty fucking open about who I think is cunty, and it wouldn't take five minutes for anyone here to find out my full name. That photo is me, and my username is just my actual nickname. I think it's quite alright to tell people they're asses when they're being asses. Life's way too short to just tolerate other people's bs for the sake of being fakey nice. Fuck all that.

Also, don't use suicidality as an excuse to police people's behavior. People who are feeling a desire to kill themselves need professional help. It's their responsibility to take the steps necessary to feel better. No amount of being nice to a suicidal person on the Internet is going to save them. For real. The emotion that leads to those feelings is too great to be cured by a "It's okay you hate women. I'm going to be nice to you anyway because I don't want you to kill yourself." Not only is it clearly disingenuous, but it does nothing to address root causes, which is what suicidal people actually need, so let's not reduce it to an oversimplified formula.

(April 13, 2019 at 9:48 pm)Thoreauvian Wrote: which is repeated after corrections are offered.

I don't agree with your "corrections."

(April 13, 2019 at 9:37 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(April 13, 2019 at 8:55 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Hehe....What a crock of manipulative horseshit. Now you're low-key suggesting that you (or Yon) could be driven kill yourselves if you aren't given free reign to spew your hostile racist/misogynistic fuckshit without being called out as pieces of shit? Lol...sure.

Case in point.  Let me ask you-- what's in it for you to talk this way?  Is it a way to work out stress by venting?  Are you imagining some actual people who did you actual harm and using me as a proxy?

No, I'm not imagining that you're anyone else. I simply refuse to play games with people like you.

I'm not your wife or one of your other hostage family members, benny. 
There's no reason why I should cave to your demands to be given free reign to be an ass.

That is what you're demanding...And I'm telling you "No". 
No priority treatment for you. No kid gloves. 

No pass.

I will call out your bigotry and manipulative, gaslighting bullshit precisely as I see it.

Even if you threaten to hurt yourself if I don't accommodate you, the answer is still no.

(April 13, 2019 at 10:10 pm)Belaqua Wrote:

(April 13, 2019 at 9:48 pm)Thoreauvian Wrote: which is repeated after corrections are offered.

I don't agree with your "corrections."

I think the question becomes, at what point you give up trying to explain yourself to someone who isn't interested?  When it's someone like Yonadav, who we tried to explain ourselves to, but who still thought we were "illiberals" who were trying to suppress his truth instead of people who were trying to correct the record of where we stood and why, you give up at a point and blow the fucker off.