however for the non christian the question is did you wear pants did you speak up in church? if yes then you are in violation of the law/sinned and will be judged accordingly.

The law is maintain for one reason and that is to point out sin and push people towards attonement as their only means to be found right before God. to force people to give up on the idea that they can live a perfect life. rather than trying to live by the law we are made to admit we can not live by such a standard and we seek out other means to be o with God.

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(May 7, 2019 at 12:20 pm)Fierce Wrote: Drich just needs to move to the middle east already.

derpa derpa doo!

All of this sounds a lot like you picking which parts of the Bible to follow and which to not follow based on what’s convenient for you. Doesn’t seem very Christian like to me.

I really honestly think you are the worst representation of a Christian I have ever “met”, though, so I’ll wait and hope someone better comes along to answer my questions

(May 7, 2019 at 1:17 pm)Losty Wrote: All of this sounds a lot like you picking which parts of the Bible to follow and which to not follow based on what’s convenient for you. Doesn’t seem very Christian like to me.

I really honestly think you are the worst representation of a Christian I have ever “met”, though, so I’ll wait and hope someone better comes along to answer my questions

Actually the whole book of romans is about this very thing. more specifically romans chapter 6, 7 and 8. However if you could only be bother to read a little bit romans 7 would be that bit.

Romans 7 is a whole chapter dedicated to our relationship with sin, and how we are to be judged (basically everything I said here).

This bit IS at the heart of biblical christianity. It is freedom. We as Christians are so free, we can live free from the law or if we can not understand this freedom we can live by the rules. it is up to us and what we can comperhend. so we can live by love alone or we can live like pharisees and we both will have the same eternal life.

I enourage you to read chapters 6 7 and 8 but if nothing else read this bit.

Now remember Paul the apstole is speaking to the church at rome. 
14 We know that the law is spiritual, but I am not. I am so human. Sin rules me as if I were its slave. 

15 I don’t understand why I act the way I do. I don’t do the good I want to do, and I do the evil I hate. 

16 And if I don’t want to do what I do, that means I agree that the law is good.

17 But I am not really the one doing the evil. It is sin living in me that does it. 

18 Yes, I know that nothing good lives in me—I mean nothing good lives in the part of me that is not spiritual. I want to do what is good, but I don’t do it. 

19 I don’t do the good that I want to do. I do the evil that I don’t want to do. 

20 So if I do what I don’t want to do, then I am not really the one doing it. It is the sin living in me that does it.

21 So I have learned this rule: When I want to do good, evil is there with me. 

22 In my mind I am happy with God’s law. 

23 But I see another law working in my body. That law makes war against the law that my mind accepts. That other law working in my body is the law of sin, and that law makes me its prisoner. 

24 What a miserable person I am! Who will save me from this body that brings me death? 

25 I thank God for his salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So in my mind I am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful self I am a slave to the law of sin.

Do you see what Paul is saying? the apstole? the man who wrote 2/3s of the new testament and who shaped the church to what it is today?

verse 14 and 15 Paul is admitting to sin. by saying he understands right from wrong but does wrong despite his understanding. why? because his body his spirit is a slave to sin and as such will sin no matter what.

He then goes on and says IF he doesn't like the evil he does, then it is not him/his soul who does it.. Right here paul is described our dual nature of being a spirit and a soul contained in a physical body. The body is corrupt, and the spirit is the body's 1/2 of our being. the other half is what moves on after we die. that is our soul.

So again our body and spirit are slaves to sin, while our soul is independent and separate. so if we know the law says it is wrong and our spirit/body has us do wrong our saving grace is our spirit. meaning if we know it is wrong and are not compliant or agree with what we do then Paul said it is not our Souls (our new christian selves who sin) but the old sinful self who is a slave to sin. the part of us who will die when this life is over.
This is reinforced through the rest of the chapter

Then he point out is because of the grace given to us that this is all possible. that because Jesus died to save the sinners like ourselves we do not have to pretend to be people who we are not.

Again this principle is spelled out over the whole book of Romans. which is why I did a study of the bok of romans with all of you a few years back. to show you that biblical based christianity is not about following rules. it is about love and grace.

I futher pointed out if Christianity was supposed to be about following rules and up keeping a certain level of morality then why oh why did God not give us two or three books of the law like he did the Jews?

Remember there's was a spiritual economy of morality and following the law. so they got several BOOKS of the Bible outlining a series of thou shalts and thou shalt nots...

So why don't christians have books of rules or a single book or at least chapters?? all we have are the rule needed to be Old testament Jews. The same rules Jesus mocked the OLD testament Jewish leadership for messing up!

What did Jesus Himself answer when He was about the most important laws under his teachings? what did he say specifically? He said all the laws of heaven and earth are fullfilled if you keep these two commands... Love your lord God with all of your heart, mind spirit and strength first (with all of your being) and love your neighbor as your self. That's it! 

If Jesus knew he was establishing a new paradigm a new religion then why not lay out the rules when asked?? Answer He did in those two simple little commands. 

Why two? because it all boils down to love in biblical Christianity. Love for God first with every fiber of your being, and then love for your neighbor.. What does it mean specifically? well on rule one you always pick God first and two for your brothers is to give them the same type of respect that you would want for yourself. Not more, not less but the same is all that is required.

Love in Christian trumps all. Whichis why I said you may have sinned by not following the traditions of the church (house rules.) but the reason why is what is going to be judged.

Are you breaking the rules out of spite or self righteousness or are you doing so because you know these rules are no longer in effect and will not hurt anyone by breaking them?

But also remember if we do have a backwards brother or sister who is a legalist and you wear pants to spite them, you are no longer in the love God requires.

This is again outlined in the book of romans this time chapter 14
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=ERV
Be willing to accept those who still have doubts about what believers can do. And don’t argue with them about their different ideas. 2 Some people believe they can eat any kind of food,[a] but those who have doubts eat only vegetables. 3 Those who know they can eat any kind of food must not feel that they are better than those who eat only vegetables. And those who eat only vegetables must not decide that those who eat all foods are wrong. God has accepted them. 4 You cannot judge the servants of someone else. Their own master decides if they are doing right or wrong. And the Lord’s servants will be right, because the Lord is able to make them right.

5 Some people might believe that one day is more important than another. And others might believe that every day is the same. Everyone should be sure about their beliefs in their own mind. 6 Those who think one day is more important than other days are doing that for the Lord. And those who eat all kinds of food are doing that for the Lord. Yes, they give thanks to God for that food. And those who refuse to eat some foods do that for the Lord. They also give thanks to God.
7 We don’t live or die just for ourselves. 8 If we live, we are living for the Lord. And if we die, we are dying for the Lord. So living or dying, we belong to the Lord. 9 That is why Christ died and rose from death to live again—so that he could be Lord over those who have died and those who are living.

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look at what I did above. the principle I am teaching comes contextually. it comes from a single book of the bible over several chapters. meaning it is not cherry picked. it does not come from 10 different sources and then compiled to teach a lesson. no everything I said is in order with the book of romans. meaning there is a whole book dedicated to how we are to relate to sin and the law.

If you do not think this is christianity but your version the version of legalism was, then why did you decide you god is dead, and I say my God is with and working with me daily?

I never decided god is dead. I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Or rather, I should say you have no idea what you’re talking about.

(May 7, 2019 at 2:43 pm)Losty Wrote: Or rather, I should say you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Drich's point is that believers are essentially awarded a Get Out of Jail Free card and are not required to adhere to the letter of the law in order to receive their Special Prize. The purpose of the law is/was to demonstrate to dirty-birdie humans that they are losers who are incapable of living up the Yaweh's standards...and thus, why folks need JC to step in.

Accept JC's offer, and you can do whatever you like. 
It's all good; You're covered. 

More or less. 

Lol.

(May 7, 2019 at 4:56 pm)Thena323 Wrote:

(May 7, 2019 at 2:43 pm)Losty Wrote: Or rather, I should say you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Drich's point is that believers are essentially awarded a Get Out of Jail Free card and are not required to adhere to the letter of the law in order to receive their Special Prize. The purpose of the law is/was to demonstrate to dirty-birdie humans that they are losers who are incapable of living up the Yaweh's standards...and thus, why folks need JC to step in.

Accept JC's offer, and you can do whatever you like. 
It's all good; You're covered. 

More or less. 

Lol.

Yea. I just meant he has no idea what he’s talking about in reference to him asking why I decided that god is dead.

(May 7, 2019 at 2:43 pm)Losty Wrote: Or rather, I should say you have no idea what you’re talking about.

So you are not an atheist?

To die is to not exist.

Atheist do not believe in God...

So is it a stretch to say Atheist kill the idea of God?

If so there is a series of movies that need to be renamed.

That said I do know what Christianity is. I also know what legalism is as it is even pointed out by paul and defined in the bible. it is when good people try and earn their right to eternal life by following the rules as hard as they can. however one of two things generally happen. 1 they burn themselves out trying to fool themselves that the can life the perfect life, and generally quit long before the race is over. or they learn to lie to themselves about their very own nature and who they are as people. which usally means they go crazy nuts over the rules and law they have no trouble keeping but others may struggle with (homosexuality is an example that comes to mind) but over look sins they can not help or excepted. (gossip is God most hated sin/sinner according to the bible but old church gossips are well tollerated is those same God hates fags churches)

The former disqualifies people from heaven because they are honest enough to see God is not supporting them but often times confuse God's silence in not supporting legalism with his death/non existance... Or they live a lie their whole lives jeopardizing their eternal life because everything is based on a lie of them living perfectly. None of which has anything to do with the love that we are commanded to have. For how can we love God if we lie to him about how good we are? how can we love one another as our self if we lie to ourselves about the sin we live with?

I also know The laws set fourth by God are not commands but a reflection of who we can become when we love God with all of our being and our neighbors as our seves.

Meaning the law is like if someone observed and tryed to write down the thing people did when they where truly in love. like going out on dates bring home flowers taking out the trash without being asked ect.. 

a legalist looks at the list and says if I do these things it will mean I deserve or will love. which we know is not true as we can do all of the things on the list and still not feel love.

When in fact Christianity/Jesus says love, and you will automatically do the things found in the law. Meaning if you really love someone you will want to go on date you will want to give flowers or do things to make the other person happy too!

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(May 7, 2019 at 4:56 pm)Thena323 Wrote:

(May 7, 2019 at 2:43 pm)Losty Wrote: Or rather, I should say you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Drich's point is that believers are essentially awarded a Get Out of Jail Free card and are not required to adhere to the letter of the law in order to receive their Special Prize. The purpose of the law is/was to demonstrate to dirty-birdie humans that they are losers who are incapable of living up the Yaweh's standards...and thus, why folks need JC to step in.

Accept JC's offer, and you can do whatever you like. 
It's all good; You're covered. 

More or less. 

Lol.

Ah, no..

See what I just said about love and the law in the post above.

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(May 7, 2019 at 5:04 pm)Losty Wrote:

(May 7, 2019 at 4:56 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Drich's point is that believers are essentially awarded a Get Out of Jail Free card and are not required to adhere to the letter of the law in order to receive their Special Prize. The purpose of the law is/was to demonstrate to dirty-birdie humans that they are losers who are incapable of living up the Yaweh's standards...and thus, why folks need JC to step in.

Accept JC's offer, and you can do whatever you like. 
It's all good; You're covered. 

More or less. 

Lol.

Yea. I just meant he has no idea what he’s talking about in reference to him asking why I decided that god is dead.

no you shared with me in PM a while back..

(May 8, 2019 at 1:31 pm)Drich Wrote:

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(May 7, 2019 at 5:04 pm)Losty Wrote: Yea. I just meant he has no idea what he’s talking about in reference to him asking why I decided that god is dead.

no you shared with me in PM a while back..

Lol...Does the quoted text look familiar? It should.
It's from your signature.

*highlighted for emphasis.

Quote:That doesn't mean question just the questionable, it also means that we should question the foundational. If you have a biblically based question you'd rather not openly discuss i am happy to receive any PM's discretely, or Email [email protected]

(May 8, 2019 at 1:31 pm)Drich Wrote:

(May 7, 2019 at 2:43 pm)Losty Wrote: Or rather, I should say you have no idea what you’re talking about.

So you are not an atheist?

To die is to not exist.

Atheist do not believe in God...

So is it a stretch to say Atheist kill the idea of God?

What? Yes, that is a stretch. You can only die if you exist. If you don't exist you can't die. To die is to exist and then stop existing. Also, not believing in an idea doesn't kill the idea. If you were trying to reference Nietzsche then I think you have a very poor understanding of what he meant when he wrote that.