If American history up until the 1960's was considered a Christian utopia, I don't know why anyone would want it.

(May 15, 2019 at 12:51 pm)Drich Wrote:

(May 15, 2019 at 10:20 am)wyzas Wrote: "Christian utopia" feels like an oxymoron. 

They can't even come close to creating this within their own sects/churches.

Hey smart guy it's call the history of america... look it up.

That is what a christian utopia looked like (US history up until the 1960s) then the "me" generation shat it up from that point on.

What the hell makes I was talking to you? I rarely read your posts.

The US was a christian utopia??? What a bunch of shit. Maybe you need to look up "utopia".

I guess it was ok if you were rich, white, straight, male, and didn't mind enslaving dark skinned people. And liked war. Although you could be all those things today, and America would look pretty great. Problem is, it sucks for everyone else.

(May 15, 2019 at 10:05 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Let's have that quote from Clinton on removing the First Amendment, Drich, and source it. My guess is that you're interpreting her words your own way as hard as you do the words of the Bible.

this is clinton land supports at the core, yale university students signing a petition to eliminate the 1st amendment. this shows that this next generation is being programmed to give up their rights for "safe spaces."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsKZf4EPlzo

here is a video of ted cruise explaining a purposed amendment that eliminates the first amendment... Your people (the dims) have already tried to pull the amendment! They want "reasonable speech." in this amendment they tried to pass! Again this has already happened!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iygt8hNpy6M

"deep seeded religious view will be changed to conform with the new laws and freedoms afforded by the government.'
She was speaking specifically about abortion and reproductive matters but also moved to include all rights and social liberties.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj1T1gP4Q9M

Again bottom line even after trump won you "Dims" tried to move the plan legislation/repeal of the first amendment through the congress despite her not being in office to approve it! This HAPPENED 8 MONTHS AGO! If she was in office the first amendment would be gone by now,plus if the antichrist i mean hillary also preloaded the supreme court with "judges who see the constitution as a living document meant to be changed to fit the times." the first and second amendment would be gone!

(May 15, 2019 at 9:04 am)Drich Wrote: This is exactly what I mean when I said you have no clue what christianity is. you see 30 opposing sects where someone has to pick one expression of the religion.. this may work in every other religion on the planet but not here.  which is in part why you fail to understand that Christianity is not just one denomination. the bible points out the each denomination is like a different part of the body where Jesus Christ is the head. each part of the body is different because each part has a different function. The church is the body of believers who put Christ at the center of our religion. the whole church including catholicism, however catholicism is not the body unto itself, it too is just a part. Which is why I point out orginally how wrong you are about the most basic grasp of the christian religion.

This is such unbelievable nonsense from a guy that shits all over the page and then shits more and more. First he says that Catholicism is not Christianity and then goes on a tirade that he didn't mean that blaming me for what he said.

You are so obsessed with me or more likely desperately trying to change the topic because you cannot and don't want to admit that Christians themselves are unable to figure out what they want in unison.

(May 15, 2019 at 1:09 pm)Smaug Wrote: But what exactly was so utopian about pre-1960's United States? People loosing their jobs & starving during Great Depression, maybe? Or the Civil War in the 1860's?

Probably segregation.

(May 15, 2019 at 1:18 pm)wyzas Wrote:

(May 15, 2019 at 12:51 pm)Drich Wrote: Hey smart guy it's call the history of america... look it up.

That is what a christian utopia looked like (US history up until the 1960s) then the "me" generation shat it up from that point on.

What the hell makes I was talking to you? I rarely read your posts.

The US was a christian utopia??? What a bunch of shit. Maybe you need to look up "utopia".

it was a christian utopia doomas.. or maybe you need to look up Christian.. Christians are not about perfection but about redemption endurance God and family. A place that would allow this and allow us to grow spiritually unimpeded by the government is/was a utopia. 

No it is not paradise. that is what the next life is about, to be christian is to be tested is to endure trials is to come out on top through God despite the hardships. To live in a christian utopia is to live in a place where we can endure all the wind and rain the lord needs to throw at us in order for us to shed the chaff from our souls. Without interference.

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(May 15, 2019 at 1:16 pm)Chad32 Wrote: If American history up until the 1960's was considered a Christian utopia, I don't know why anyone would want it.

Freedom to practice our beliefs without governmental or societal interference.

If so than Middle Ages were far more 'utopian'.

(May 15, 2019 at 1:34 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(May 15, 2019 at 9:04 am)Drich Wrote: This is exactly what I mean when I said you have no clue what christianity is. you see 30 opposing sects where someone has to pick one expression of the religion.. this may work in every other religion on the planet but not here.  which is in part why you fail to understand that Christianity is not just one denomination. the bible points out the each denomination is like a different part of the body where Jesus Christ is the head. each part of the body is different because each part has a different function. The church is the body of believers who put Christ at the center of our religion. the whole church including catholicism, however catholicism is not the body unto itself, it too is just a part. Which is why I point out orginally how wrong you are about the most basic grasp of the christian religion.

This is such unbelievable nonsense from a guy that shits all over the page and then shits more and more. First he says that Catholicism is not Christianity and then goes on a tirade that he didn't mean that blaming me for what he said.

You are so obsessed with me or more likely desperately trying to change the topic because you cannot and don't want to admit that Christians themselves are unable to figure out what they want in unison.

(May 15, 2019 at 1:09 pm)Smaug Wrote: But what exactly was so utopian about pre-1960's United States? People loosing their jobs & starving during Great Depression, maybe? Or the Civil War in the 1860's?

Probably segregation.

what did I say? I called it exactly you have no idea, how Christian even view the church themselves or God yet you hate.

My analogy about the church being the body if found in the bible. this is how "we" are taught to reconcile our different ways of worship and belief! yet you know nothing of it. and think because you are some sort of religious standard. my description comes from:

1 cor 12:
One Body with Many Members
12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves[d] or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts,[e] yet one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.
27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts.
And I will show you a still more excellent way.

You don't even know enough about christianity to identify it when someone uses a biblical description to describe it...
 

but I'm the ignorant one? YOU Don't even have a 2nd grade understanding of Christianity outside the perspective of a single denomination could afford you... that is like taking a shot glass dipping it into the ocean and then from the contents of the glass profess mastery of understanding of everything in the sea.

How can you hate what you don't even have a basic understanding of? I can understand developing hate from fear.. that could explain things you fear God thus hate all that god is about including his followers is that your problem?

(May 15, 2019 at 1:48 pm)Drich Wrote: what did I say? I called it exactly you have no idea, how Christian even view the church themselves or God yet you hate.

My analogy about the church being the body if found in the bible. this is how "we" are taught to reconcile our different ways of worship and belief! yet you know nothing of it. and think because you are some sort of religious standard. my description comes from:

Hey Drich you don't have to lie to me that somehow all denominations are one because we all see all the time one denomination accusing the other of being fake, being the antichrist, whore of Babylon and using also the Bible and Jesus's words to accuse each other of being false prophets, sheep in wolf's clothing and so on.

(May 15, 2019 at 1:42 pm)Smaug Wrote: If so than Middle Ages were far more 'utopian'.

explain how a tyrannical theocracy of one denomination allows for free practice of all of Christianity?

Did you not read or did you not understand the body analogy?

Let say the the church is like the body of Christ. meaning each denomination is repersented by a specific part. each part meaning arm leg hand eye er foot fingers ect ect has a different shape and a different function. The churches/denominations must all worship differently understand differently and operate differently because we are all a little different and our only Christian rules breaks down to loving God with all of our ablity first and our neighbor as ourselves second. So if we are all a little different and like minds come together to worship there will be different forms of worship.. because if people gifted with strong singing voices who's primary form of worship is singing are stuck in dry readings and endless interpretations then they are not following our greatest command to worship with all of what God gave them when they study! So their church must be full of song and singing inorder for them to follow the greatest command. However the intellectual who has no intrest in song can not follow the one ruleof worship if he is stuck in a church where they sing 95% of the time. He needs to be in that study church...

Just like toungue or mouth worships God with song and the eyes and mind worship god with reading and interpretation Both are needed for the body to be in compliance with our only rule concerning worship!

So then how could the body/how could the eyes and mind worship with all of their being how could the toungue and mouth worship with song if their was no singing how could the hands and feet worship if all where made to worship like one single denomination one part of the body where to worship?

There is no freedom to worship as a christian in or under a single denominational rule. Which is why the fore fathers told us congress shal not pass any laws concerning the establishment of religion. meaning the freedom to worship as God intended was why this country was above and beyond any other established nation when it came to religious freedom.

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(May 15, 2019 at 1:58 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(May 15, 2019 at 1:48 pm)Drich Wrote: what did I say? I called it exactly you have no idea, how Christian even view the church themselves or God yet you hate.

My analogy about the church being the body if found in the bible. this is how "we" are taught to reconcile our different ways of worship and belief! yet you know nothing of it. and think because you are some sort of religious standard. my description comes from:

Hey Drich you don't have to lie to me that somehow all denominations are one because we all see all the time one denomination accusing the other of being fake, being the antichrist, whore of Babylon and using also the Bible and Jesus's words to accuse each other of being false prophets, sheep in wolf's clothing and so on.

Hey sport just READ THE PASSAGE just because you don't understand or this is your first time hearing this does not mean it was not meant to be this way from the beginning!

Ever wonder why Paul wrote a different letter to each different church? a letter to Rome a letter to Galacia a letter to thesslonica a letter to corinth.. If he where establishing one church one religion then why did he not like God write one letter one book of rules and send it to everyone and make them comply to one rule set?

Again because Christian is a religion without rules. It has two acording to Christ. Love God with all of your heart,mind Spirit and strength and the second is lke it. Love you neighbor as yourself. Again Paul wrote to each church differently because they had different ways of worship these differences today would quickly be identified as denominational differences.

John records in revelation a conversation Christ has with the 7 primary denominations of the church. Starting in revelation 1 (it is said all denominations fit in these 7 categories) even if there are only 7 churches Christ recognize he in revelation1 and 2 describe 7 distinct denominations and their failings and redemptive qualities.

So despite your unwillingness to let go of your primary school understanding of how the church works... a very simple and cursory look at not only how the bible was written but what the bible actually says, proves you completely wrong and your assessmentof the church rong