They won’t. We know this, because we’ve come across cultures with no sense of personal property.. thus no stealing to be wrong in the first place.

If you want them to know that, you’ll have to instill it yourself, or indirectly by raising them in a culture that instills it for you.

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We might even be able to create an inference out of that, assuming that there are things that are objectively wrong that anyone would or could recognize. That it’s not the stealing, properly, that’s wrong.... but some occasional or even common property of theft.

We won’t get that level of granular accuracy from generalized deontological absolutes, ofc.

(August 1, 2019 at 7:36 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: If you call yourself a theist people are going to expect you to believe in a theist god, not in your desire to be a good father or a reality with narratives.

A theistic god, lol.

No when you call yourself a theist, most atheist seem to expect that you believe in some fundie evangelical conception of God, because they’re not all that familiar with conceptions of God outside of this, mainly because many of them were raised in that tradition or are surrounded by it.

They have a very narrow understanding of theism, hence why they get tripped up over things like God not feeling things or having emotions, or not being some white haired dude in the sky granting wishes.

I just expect you to believe in a personal and intervening god, not bullshit me about narratives in reality and dadding.

You’re the one who told the boards that this was what you “consider” theism and how you rationalized the theistic component of your morality.

Neither of those things are theism, and if you want the mean atheists to stop thinking theists believe loopy shit, maybe you should stop believing in loopy shit, communicate yourself better, or not try some blatantly dishonest garbage?

Like I said, I already knew that you didn’t believe the shit you were saying, you just didn’t want to say what you do believe, or flat out don’t know how.

My money is on a combo of the two.

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There -is- a moral position that actually is contingent on a theistic god, it’s just not a realist or objective position. That position, if you genuinely held it, would give you some coherent rationale for your initial outburst.

(August 1, 2019 at 8:00 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: They won’t. We know this, because we’ve come across cultures with no sense of personal property.. thus no stealing to be wrong in the first place.

You’ve answered your own question. You can’t steal that which is shared in common, you can steal something that belongs to someone else. My wife can’t steal food from our fridge, I can’t steal money from her purse, because all that is shared.

In fact it’s not that they don’t recognize what they do as stealing, we wouldn’t either for the same reason.

I also think you’ve simplified the cultures you referring to, usually they don’t see certain things like land, water as shared in common, but not everything.

If I went in their and took some of their valuables, I’m sure they’d point out that im taking something that isn’t mine, and would be pretty pissed as a result.

I didn’t pose a question. You’ve made it clear that you have nothing to teach me about moral theories or their relationship to societal constraints in formation.

You even managed to miss the pulse there. “Stealing” isn’t wrong in a culture with no concept of stealing, it may not even be “stealing” that’s wrong in a culture that does have that concept.

We simply say “stealing is wrong” as shorthand for a massive and tedious amount of competing evaluative premises simplified into generalized rules that are easy to teach children.

(August 1, 2019 at 9:19 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: I just expect you to believe in a personal and intervening god, not bullshit me about narratives in reality and dadding.

You’re the one who told the boards that this was what you “consider” theism and how you rationalized the theistic component of your morality.

Neither of those things are theism, and if you want the mean atheists to stop thinking theists believe loopy shit, maybe you should stop believing in loopy shit, communicate yourself better, or not try some blatantly dishonest garbage?

Like I said, I already knew that you didn’t believe the shit you were saying, you just didn’t want to say what you do believe, or flat out don’t know how.

My money is on a combo of the two.

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There -is- a moral position that actually is contingent on a theistic god, it’s just not a realist or objective position.

Lol, intervening and personal are not a requirement for theism. A theist can believe in a non-personal and non-intervening God.

This is not to say I don’t believe in a personal God, I just don’t believe it in the way some fundies do, or the way you think I should.

Knowledge of God, and knowledge of oneself go hand in hand, it’s far more personal than any scientific knowledge of the world. It’s about an intrusive truth, more present than the room I’m in, or my wife.

They’re the defining characteristics of a theistic god. It’s what the term refers to. That’s the difference between a deistic god and a theistic god. A person who believes in an impersonal and non interventionist god.....is a deist.

Surprise surprise, another subject you know jack shit about but nevertheless feel compelled to argue with your betters over.

Now tell me again how mean atheists are just always misunderstanding your “theism”.

(August 1, 2019 at 9:39 pm)Acrobat Wrote: Knowledge of God, and knowledge of oneself go hand in hand, it’s far more personal than any scientific knowledge of the world. It’s about an intrusive truth, more present than the room I’m in, or my wife.

It is referred to as delusion. If there is no evidence except that which is personal to you, then what you believe exists only in your mind. It really is that simple.

(August 1, 2019 at 9:35 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: “Stealing” isn’t wrong in a culture with no concept of stealing, it may not even be “stealing” that’s wrong in a culture that does have that concept.

First of all you’ve provided no evidence of a culture with no concept of stealing, so please provide some material to support your claim here.

If I go into such cultures and take a bunch of shit from their homes, do you really think they’re not gonna be like wtf? Won’t recognize that I took stuff that wasn’t mine to take?

Secondly the cultures that I think your referring to, believe that certain things like water and land are sacred, to be shared among them, not everything. Just because some cultures have communal beliefs about certain things, doesn’t mean that they don’t understand the concept of stealing.

And lastly you believe stealing is objectively wrong. So are these cultures doing something objectively wrong which they don’t recognize?

You have the internet, go do some basic research. Maybe you’ll fuck up less.