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How to easily defeat any argument for God
#91
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
(August 9, 2019 at 1:23 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:
(August 9, 2019 at 1:05 pm)Acrobat Wrote: Yes, but only as to what can be said of Christ, expressed in a Wim Wenders film “a storyteller both an infant and an ancient and him reveals Everyman.”  Only in as much as concepts like forgiveness, love, redemption, the weight of sin, tragedy, suffering, faith etc.. are housed within that tradition.

But not in the way often housed in common discussions/debates with Christians and theists, but is fairly common in discussion between believers.

Okay...I’m going to go with “yes”, lol. 

Is god moral?

What you and I might mean by moral will possibly differ, you perhaps see it as matter of actions, where as i indicate I see it as way of being. That being a good person is something about the nature or character of that person, than his actions.

A perfect way of being is God, so in that sense I might say God is moral.

There something about the essence of who Christ is, that reveals who God is, and it’s this that I call Good, or moral.
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#92
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
(August 9, 2019 at 2:16 pm)Acrobat Wrote:
(August 9, 2019 at 1:23 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Okay...I’m going to go with “yes”, lol. 

Is god moral?

A perfect way of being is God, so in that sense I might say God is moral. There something about the essence of who Christ is, that reveals who God is, and it’s this that I call Good, or moral.

So, your answer is “yes”. God is good and moral.  How do you know god is good and moral?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
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#93
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
-and if there were no Christ, and no god, would all of those “ways of being” still be moral, still be good?

I ask because either answer is problematic. If we say no, then good dies come from god, that sky wizard you believe in but hate to have described in that way.

If otoh, we say yes, then morals and good are not, actually, “part of knowledge of god”. Properly, then... they would be knowledge of those ways of being, of how being a certain way is “good-making”.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#94
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
(August 9, 2019 at 2:20 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:
(August 9, 2019 at 2:16 pm)Acrobat Wrote: There something about the essence of who Christ is, that reveals who God is, and it’s this that I call Good, or moral.

So, your answer is “yes”. God is good and moral.  How do you know god is good and moral?

I know that Good is good, and moral is moral.

It’s Good that I’m elevating to the status of God, not a God being elevated to the status of Good.

It’s goodness that tells us how we ought to live and be, and obligates us to it. It is that which I worship, and adore, and desire to partake in its life.
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#95
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
(August 9, 2019 at 2:25 pm)Acrobat Wrote:
(August 9, 2019 at 2:20 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: So, your answer is “yes”. God is good and moral.  How do you know god is good and moral?

I know that Good is good, and moral is moral.

How do you know what is good, and what is moral?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
Reply
#96
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
Then we don’t need to know anything about gods, nor does goodness need to be any part of gods.

We only need to be able to see good, real or imagined, to be good.

Why, then, would there be any difficulty whatsoever for an atheist to account for -any- moral theory?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#97
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
(August 9, 2019 at 2:16 pm)Acrobat Wrote:
(August 9, 2019 at 1:23 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Okay...I’m going to go with “yes”, lol. 

Is god moral?

What you and I might mean by moral will possibly differ, you perhaps see it  as matter of  actions, where as i indicate I see it as way of being. That being a good person is something about the nature or character of that person, than his actions.

A perfect way of being is God, so in that sense I might say God is moral.

There something about the essence of who Christ is, that reveals who God is, and it’s this that I call Good, or moral.

It is not immediately obvious that morality is a requisite of perfection, but leave that aside for now.

Is God moral because morality emanates from God, or is God moral because he follows moral strictures (it can't be both, by the way).?

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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#98
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
(August 9, 2019 at 2:30 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:
(August 9, 2019 at 2:25 pm)Acrobat Wrote: I know that Good is good, and moral is moral.

How do you know what is good, and what is moral?

Probably not much different than anyone else does, or even a young child does.

Many of us might invest a lot into forming some obscure moral theories, and formulas, yet in the real world they serve as nothing more than justifications after the fact.

I see recognizing good, as matter of seeing, than a sort of answer to a formula. How do I know the sun is out, by looking out my window.

A 3 month old, responds differently to a character that helps another than to a character that hinders another person.

This infant isn’t forming a rational definition of good, but recognizing it, seeing it. I don’t see what I doing any differently than this.

(August 9, 2019 at 2:34 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(August 9, 2019 at 2:16 pm)Acrobat Wrote: What you and I might mean by moral will possibly differ, you perhaps see it  as matter of  actions, where as i indicate I see it as way of being. That being a good person is something about the nature or character of that person, than his actions.

A perfect way of being is God, so in that sense I might say God is moral.

There something about the essence of who Christ is, that reveals who God is, and it’s this that I call Good, or moral.

It is not immediately obvious that morality is a requisite of perfection, but leave that aside for now.

Is God moral because morality emanates from God, or is God moral because he follows moral strictures (it can't be both, by the way).?

Boru

As I’ve indicated I don’t see Good as something distinct from God, so it makes little sense to say that Good emanates from God, that’s like saying I emanate from myself.
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#99
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
And there we have it, no matter how many times you might say that good has nothing to do with sky wizards, that is what you believe, and you’ve never actually managed to conceal that fact from anyone with your disingenuous ambulation.

That’s -why- you can’t understand how atheists account for moral systems, no matter how many times this is explained to you across multiple threads.

In point of fact, what you believe is not moral objectivity or moral realism....at all. You don’t think that there is some thing about an act that identifies it as good or bad, you think that there is something about a god that identifies things as good or bad.

Your constant demands that others account for realism or any other moral assertion should really be focused inward.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
(August 9, 2019 at 3:18 pm)Acrobat Wrote:
(August 9, 2019 at 2:30 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: How do you know what is good, and what is moral?

Probably not much different than anyone else does...I see recognizing  good, as matter of seeing.

Hey, me too! So, you’re conceding that god isn’t necessary to be good and moral?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
Reply



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