(September 22, 2019 at 8:27 pm)Fierce Wrote:

Quote:What do you think about the claim that most people are interested in maximizing their true beliefs and minimizing their false beliefs? Is this true of most people? Is it true of most religious believers?

My experience is that it is very much NOT true, of either atheists or religious people. 

Commitment to an ideological position nearly always takes precedence.

Right or wrong, believe whatever you want; just don't be an asshole about those beliefs. I think my only objection here is that so many religious assholes go out of their way to push their religious beliefs onto others and they'll do it at gunpoint, if necessary.

To make an analogy, if you have a friend who loves WWE, do you spend all your time telling him how fake and made up all the "wrestling" is or do you just let him enjoy his show?

Or to think about another perspective, some people have done very good things from inspiration they got from their religion. Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr are examples here. Suppose, for a moment, that removing their faith would have interfered with the good they did for the world; should they have been convinced of a true belief, even if it prevented them from doing good? Or, likewise, if knowing the truth would have caused someone to do something bad, should they be allowed to continue to believe something that isn't true?

(September 22, 2019 at 8:51 pm)TaraJo Wrote: Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr are examples here.  

It may be relevant here that in English there are two kinds of belief. 

One is: intellectual assent to a proposition. "I believe that the world is round." 

Another is: commitment to a principle. "I believe in equal rights for women." 

We don't have equal rights for women. Currently they don't exist. But I believe in them. For many Christians, belief in Christ acts in this way, I think.

As long as others false beliefs don't negatively impact me or the society around me I don't care. 

The religious right are negatively impacting my life. The entitled religious are negatively impacting my life.

I think that will and effort is required to fight “false but comforting” believes. After all, our brains are full flaws and programmed in a such a way.

Nonetheless to have a critical mind can be achievable. Though constantly criticizing everything makes us unhappy.

(September 22, 2019 at 10:20 pm)Macoleco Wrote: I think that will and effort is required to fight “false but comforting” believes. After all,  our brains are full flaws and programmed in a such a way.

Nonetheless to have a critical mind can be achievable. Though constantly criticizing everything makes us unhappy.

I think this is a very true statement. I believe that true change requires the opportunity to change, acknowledgement and understanding of what change is desired and (most often forgot) a willingness to change (foreseeing and accepting consequences and conditions) .

As to the second point, having a critical mind is definitely achievable. The question is can it be balanced with it's opposite on the spectrum? If solely seeking a critical mind leads to unhappiness through constant criticism, is it truly the most useful goal? In real life we don't act like we distrust everything we know, so perhaps a more realistic solution is a balance between trust and critical thinking?

I don't think people adopt beliefs that makes them feel good. Although I do think its important for people to adopt positive perspectives; a lot of anxiety and depression stems from people adopting beliefs that make them feel bad (ex. That they will fail the exam before its been graded).

That aside, my prediction is that people don't adopt beliefs because it makes them feel good; but once adopted they'll have a harder time letting go of those beliefs, if they do in fact make them feel good and letting go makes them feel bad.

I think that beliefs based on feels is the anti-thesis to skeptics worldwide and can lead to lots of good and bad things. I think being a skeptic about everything isn't really truly how we act day-to-day and beliefs based on feels are probably far more widely the case in practice than many here would like to admit.

(September 22, 2019 at 8:50 pm)Belaqua Wrote: My experience is that it is very much NOT true, of either atheists or religious people. 

Commitment to an ideological position nearly always takes precedence.

Oh good. Please detail the ideology of atheism. Good luck.